3 replies to this topic

[dryden]

Hi running gurus,

I've been training somewhat regularly for a while now, at least enough to know my own pace and how hard I can push myself normally. However, I've recently started doing more focused hill training and suddenly I realize I'm not so sure how to know my speed on hilly routes. And I'm talking about something more than a generally flat route with the occasional slope/hill.

My question is maybe best described by an example, with some variations:

If I, for example, normally run 10km in 60 minutes (6min/km pace) on a flat route, what could I expect to run a 10km route with 300m (3%) elevation gain in? And how would it be if it was 5% elevation instead? And what about if the route had 300m elevation gain and 300m elevation loss, would that be equivalent to running flat? (not in my case for sure ) And similar permutations on the same concept.

How do you guys generally think about elevation vs pace?

[wonderfulblevic]

For myself, I try to maintain even effort especially when going uphill. Even perceived effort, not even pace. Usually pace may get slower going up. Depending on the gradient of the downhill, I may speed up or just maintain even effort again. But my heart rate do drop when going downhill so that's my "rest" time. Overall, elevation changes do result in slower overall timing compared to flat routes. Similar to long straight stretches vs narrow winding stretches I guess. So a long gentle ekevation but straight and open stretch of road like Nicol Highway would be faster than narrow winding but flat park connectors.

[kohpapa]

let uncle asked..what's the best way to run up and down hills?..so what training sessions for each type?..ok..uncle explains..

running uphill is tough on the lungs, and running back down is tough on the legs..and so most runners will commit the two most key mistakes..try to run too fast on the uphill and don't run fast enough on the downhills..

considering running on flat terrain..speed or pace is generally limited by the ability of your heart and lungs to transport oxygen to the muscles in your legs..so while maintaining the same speed or pace while hauling your body up a hill..quickly notice breathing becomes harder..consuming more oxygen..and once you get to the top of the hill.."out of breadth"..meaning you'll need time to recover from this extra effort..wasted extra time..hence some will suggest why not decrease the speed in uphill..to compensate for a quicker return of faster running speeds later on not so steep elevation...

the opposite is true when running downhill..after from the top of the hill..with not enough oxygen (limited due to the waster effort in recovery)..most will simply can't run faster enough downhill..

so what's the practical tip..uphill and downhill in progress..and when getting to the bottom of a hill, focus on maintaining your momentum (and higher speed) until you breathing forces you to slow down..remember..run fast in down hill..up to your aerobic limit (actually this will be 100% of aerobic fitness)..and this will be the downhill running as a skill you can acquire through practice..

but then..running down hill is hard on legs and raises injury risk..braking effect on muscles..quads..and hence..soreness will surely happen to these muscles..but, positively..these weak muscle fibers will "strengthen" through adaptation..and downhill run sessions are practiced by sprinters and football players to improve their sprint speed..and 5-degree slope is found to be ideal gradient to maximise speed for sprints..

so what's uncle hillrun tips..so many..uphill..train lung power-breathing..delay "out of breath"..actually aerobic zone floating to anaerobic zone..a zone called threshold zone..need to sustain momentum of 5k/10k pace of 1min-3min (don't lose pace) until totally anaerobic..then just need to speed..0.5-1min..for anaerobic workout..top of the hill..quickly recover..lung must pump quick quick oxygen..downhill..ready..run fast and faster..good for quads (stress, sores, stress, sores less next time)..stress quads (cyclists love this set of muscles for speed sprints)..run beyond 5k/10k pacing..sprinting..until towards the bottom of hill..prepare to let the aerobic fitness (breathing steady, heart rate stabalise)..to take over..aerobic endurance running between 20-60min..as long as 20-min..for real aerobic workout..if want a short training session..

this hillrun..can actually helps to accomplish aerobic 70%..threshold..20%..and anaerobic 10%..workout with sprint intervals in hillrun..build endurance, strength and speed..3x50m sprints 100% effort, with recovery jog..3x100m strides 90% effort with recovery jog.. 3x150m strides with 85% with recovery jog..but do that with caution..consider high-level intensive workout..for anaerobic..must come with full 100% aerobic fitness when engaging these activities..and must be motivated with peers with similar goals..and uncle was motivated with hillrun training with the Gurkha army in training.. see them do this..equal to endurance training for elites..

important is to find this hill..and uncle found already..measure the right distance..for uphill and downhill challenge..make sure enough flat terrain for aerobic workout of at least 20min..and with the wonderful natural terrain..green and pleasant..unlike all these flat PCNs..winding run tracks..

hope this can explain elevation vs pace slowdown..a little muscular training..a little lung power training..aerobic and anaerobic training..above all..very enjoyable..

ok..uncle's Gurkha hill training is "on"..bye bye

Edited by kohpapa, 12 September 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[metallilan]

A nice question that has probably not been researched further. I don't think there has been any exact linear relationship between two (I could be wrong, I'm still learning anyway).

With regards to elevation, i don't think theres too much of a difference in Singapore? Aside from places like Macritchie and Bukit Timah. (even then, elevation is still much lower than places with mountains). Different grades of slopes definitely, but not too sure about elevation.

To simplify, my personal training ideals is to push moderately on the upslopes, and go fast on the downslopes. This applies to both road and trail running. Trail running would be much more intense, but you will reap the benefits when you run on the road after,