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frogger8429

finishing fast

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

let me ask you a question. how can sprinting the last 300m help you in your timing, if you are talking about timing, that is.

to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

as in whether it is good for the body or not, i'm not sure. if you only sprint 300m and only in races, you may over work your heart too suddenly and you may just kaput! this is my only worry.

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

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let me ask you a question. how can sprinting the last 300m help you in your timing, if you are talking about timing, that is.

to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

as in whether it is good for the body or not, i'm not sure. if you only sprint 300m and only in races, you may over work your heart too suddenly and you may just kaput! this is my only worry.

timing to me is not the most crucial part of the run/training..

what i may want to know is that would finishing fast result in a more "quality" run/training as oppose to not finishing fast?

and

what do u propose as the optimum pace/heart rate for finishing fast?

~

thank u for yr time.

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

It's a good practice. I postulate there are two benefits. Firstly, it develops your finishing kick ability and is a good practice for race simulation. Secondly, when you do a 25k long run, you are using predominantly your slow twitch muscle fibers. A fast finish or some strides at the end will help to activate the recruitment of fast twich fibers.

However, I only suggest you to do the super fast finish only on your key workout days (after tempo/intervals or long runs). On your easy or recovery days, just keep the runs aerobic.

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

that's what i mean lor... just for a few seconds.

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

that's what i mean lor... just for a few seconds.

A few seconds but can classify you as a sub-4 hr marathon runner or a 4-hour marathoner.

A few seconds but can make a difference between gold and silver, bronze or no medal at all.

You as a chairman of MR25 5k time trial should know this.....

Finishing kick counts...

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

that's what i mean lor... just for a few seconds.

A few seconds but can classify you as a sub-4 hr marathon runner or a 4-hour marathoner.

A few seconds but can make a difference between gold and silver, bronze or no medal at all.

Just check the results of Olympic Games or World Champs, and calculate the timing difference between the gold and silver medalists...

Finishing kick counts...

okay, you win. if that's what you mean, i've got nothing to say.

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A few seconds but can classify you as a sub-4 hr marathon runner or a 4-hour marathoner.

A few seconds but can make a difference between gold and silver, bronze or no medal at all.

Finishing kick counts...

A marathon is consistency (not that I can be that consistent) over the distance... u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

that's what i mean lor... just for a few seconds.

A few seconds but can classify you as a sub-4 hr marathon runner or a 4-hour marathoner.

A few seconds but can make a difference between gold and silver, bronze or no medal at all.

You as a chairman of MR25 5k time trial should know this.....

Finishing kick counts...

So it only matters if its between a 3:59:59 and 4:00:20? In other words its not so important between 3:59:30 and 3:59:59, or between 3:59:20 and 3:59:49, or between 3:59:10 and 3:59:39? I think brokie's point is that for the vast majority of circumstances for recreational long distance runners, it matters not a bit whether someone puts in a finishing kick for the last 300m or not. For 99.9% of the time, the improvement in timing is trivial and gains nothing as far a prizes/classification etc. The question is then whether its worth doing for training purposes. In fact, I think that's the thrust of the poster's question, how does it help in training.

Some programs will suggest some amount of race pace training mixed in with LSD. If someone has done 20k at LSD pace, and then done the last 5k pace, I think its worth doing for 'muscle memory' training, as well as for psychological prep. I can also buy the idea that a recreational long distance runner not track intervals to boost running economy. That would be several sets of fast running interspersed with slow jog/walk (as you know). A single all out sprint for the last 300m after a tiring 25k run? I think the risk of injury is just too high and I can't think of any physiological benefit that can be derived.

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to me, sprinting the last 300m is to finish in a shwee shwee way.... doesn't help the timing much. unless you are talking about just a few seconds.

Sprinting hard in the last 300m can make a difference between a 39:50 and a 40:10 10k or 3:59:59 and 4:00:20 marathon.

that's what i mean lor... just for a few seconds.

A few seconds but can classify you as a sub-4 hr marathon runner or a 4-hour marathoner.

A few seconds but can make a difference between gold and silver, bronze or no medal at all.

You as a chairman of MR25 5k time trial should know this.....

Finishing kick counts...

yes i am chairman for mr25 5km Time Trial and even if i am not, i DO know what a few seconds mean in a short sprint distance like this okay. and do you know what i will advise runners who want to take part in this to do? "run fast fast all the way from start to end and don't slow down at all!" but i will not tell him to speed up only at the last 300m.

yes few seconds mean a lot if a medal is involved. lagi important if there is prize money to talk about. but personally, and i repeat "personally", i won't be happy with a 3:59:59 marathon timing even though that means i am a sub-4 marathoner.

slingrunner, i can understand how a few seconds matter to you but you may not comprehend how a few seconds is meaningless to me. we are in different leagues, that's why.

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brokie, pls go drink some barley and cool down...

i believe frogger8429 wanted to know whether there is any benefit/harm in sprinting to the end for every training session...(besides shaving off that "few" seconds)

i personally don't do it during training because of the perceived high-risk-low-reward

however i know someone who does it all the time and he runs sub-4 marathons

so i guess it is up to the individual...

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brokie, pls go drink some barley and cool down...

i believe frogger8429 wanted to know whether there is any benefit/harm in sprinting to the end for every training session...(besides shaving off that "few" seconds)

i personally don't do it during training because of the perceived high-risk-low-reward

however i know someone who does it all the time and he runs sub-4 marathons

so i guess it is up to the individual...

good grief! do i sound angry? till i need to cool down?

hahah.....

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Greg Mc Millan:

The second type of long run is completely different than the long, steady run. The fast finish becomes the focus of this run. learned about the fast finish long run from Gabriele Rosa, the coach of world-record holder Paul Tergat.

You start the workout at your normal easy run pace, increase it slightly in the middle of the run then try to average your goal marathon pace for the last 30 to 90 minutes of the run. In his program, the last 10 to 30 minutes of the fast finish long runs are like a race. You run as hard as you can and sprint at the finish. It is grueling but very race-specific training.

The idea is that you are training your body (and maybe more importantly, your mind) to run strong even when you are tired, just like you will need to do in the marathon. Physiologically, you train the body to work more efficiently at marathon pace and mentally, you undergo the extreme fatigue that marathon racers inevitably face during the final few miles.

While we are mere mortals, we still can copy some of the training concepts of the elites. Just make sure you adjust the pace to fit your ability when you do these sessions.

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When I was in high school (many years ago) I once had the privilege to be paced by a very experienced runner for a 10km track session. I ran 38mins, the first and only time I have ever run 10km in under 40mins (was training for 1.5km, 3km and 5km events at the time). He was the president of the local joggers club and despite being in his fifties could run faster than me, a teenager. His son was even faster. He advised me to run at an even pace throughout and when I started to accelerate for a fast final lap, he said this was not advised, as it could lead to injury.

I can more understand the logic behind running at an increased pace for the last 30mins of a marathon or half marathon, if able to, rather than the last 300m. If you have enough energy to "sprint" the last 300m, you may have wasted energy that could have saved even more time in a gradual speed increase over the last 5km or so. Further, the pace increase over 5km, versus say 300m, would not be so great, so probability of incurring an injury would be less. This is only my opinion.

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A marathon is consistency (not that I can be that consistent) over the distance... u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

I also am with the "consistency" camp. If you can sprint hard in the last 300m, it means you probably could have gone at a faster pace in the last 3km, or even throughout the whole race. Of course, can't argue with that if one is doing a 2.4km, but it also means that the whole 2.4km run could have been more evenly spaced out, and the time gained could have been more (all you need is 1sec faster for every min you run, and it'll be 10secs gained for a 10min 2.4km runner).

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When I was in high school (many years ago) I once had the privilege to be paced by a very experienced runner for a 10km track session. I ran 38mins, the first and only time I have ever run 10km in under 40mins (was training for 1.5km, 3km and 5km events at the time). He was the president of the local joggers club and despite being in his fifties could run faster than me, a teenager. His son was even faster. He advised me to run at an even pace throughout and when I started to accelerate for a fast final lap, he said this was not advised, as it could lead to injury.

I can more understand the logic behind running at an increased pace for the last 30mins of a marathon or half marathon, if able to, rather than the last 300m. If you have enough energy to "sprint" the last 300m, you may have wasted energy that could have saved even more time in a gradual speed increase over the last 5km or so. Further, the pace increase over 5km, versus say 300m, would not be so great, so probability of incurring an injury would be less. This is only my opinion.

We are not talking about even pacing strategy.

Consider 2 runners, runner A and runner B with similar ability and race times....

They are just average Joes, with average timing.

They both always train together for long runs, intervals, tempos etc. However, after training runs, while Runner A would stop and finish, runner B did a fast 400m or 4 x 200m repetions.

One day, runner A and B race together in a 10K. They both adopt even pacing strategy and run side-by-side until about 9.8k.

With 200m to go, who do you think will be the favourites to finish first?

.. u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

If a few seconds don't count, why then all runners (fast or slow, those with full time jobs, running as a hobby) increase their speed when approaching the finish line?

Won't you do the same?

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.. u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

If a few seconds don't count, why then all runners (fast or slow, those with full time jobs, running as a hobby) increase their speed when approaching the finish line?

Won't you do the same?

u jus can't take it lying down, can u???

u are a very fast runner ... u got yr own school of thoughts and I have mine.

if I run fast to the finish, it's not cos' I want to shave the few secs; It's cos' I am feeding the energy off from the crowd. Happy???

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.. u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

If a few seconds don't count, why then all runners (fast or slow, those with full time jobs, running as a hobby) increase their speed when approaching the finish line?

Won't you do the same?

u jus can't take it lying down, can u???

u are a very fast runner ... u got yr own school of thoughts and I have mine.

if I run fast to the finish, it's not cos' I want to shave the few secs; It's cos' I am feeding the energy off from the crowd. Happy???

And I would dare say at least 80% of us runners speed up for the above reason, and u might just be part of that statistic as well.

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If a few seconds don't count, why then all runners (fast or slow, those with full time jobs, running as a hobby) increase their speed when approaching the finish line?

Won't you do the same?

Sling, I just want to add a final point. I am a long distance runner (not as good as you).

My finishing time is not determined by how fast I sprint to the finish but how well/bad I had ran through the course.

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

Listen to your body. Don't sprint till you double over and throw up. Time yourself over each run, the more you have at the end will mean you could have run at a faster pace. At some point you might find yourself without any energy for a final kick. The cycle will repeat as you improve. I assume you are referring to tempo runs.

Remember to have your easy runs, long runs, interval runs, tempo runs and rest day. Tempo runs all year round will not lead to improvement.

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

Simple answer: No effects at all (assuming we are talking about 300 to 500m here lah). Case close.

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in all my run's (short(5km) or long(25km) )..i have a habit of finishing fast.( for example, sprinting as fast as i can for the last 300m)

what i want to ask is:

is that good for the body?

will it cause any visible improvement to my stamina and strength as oppose to not doing it?

thank you for yr time.

Simple answer: No effects at all (assuming we are talking about 300 to 500m here lah). Case close.

sweet!! The expert speaks.

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.. u dun wait for the last 300 meters sprint to try to cut that few seconds.

and gosh!! we are not talking bout' olympic medallions here... just mere mortals holding full time jobs and taking up running as an activity.

If a few seconds don't count, why then all runners (fast or slow, those with full time jobs, running as a hobby) increase their speed when approaching the finish line?

Won't you do the same?

u jus can't take it lying down, can u???

u are a very fast runner ... u got yr own school of thoughts and I have mine.

if I run fast to the finish, it's not cos' I want to shave the few secs; It's cos' I am feeding the energy off from the crowd. Happy???

I love your style man :cool_grin:

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