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prisangel

OSIM Sundown Marathon - 1 June 2019

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35 minutes ago, ayukawa22 said:

. Also the delay in flag off , I suspect is late arrival of VIP. 

This is what I suspect for most running events with delays in flagging off as well... lol

Edited by stalky79

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17 hours ago, lonewolf said:

Seems like more negative than positive comments.

Compared to HIV which is better? 

? I saw a sensitive word in uppercase letters in the last line... and two words showing the status of that sensitive word in the first line... kidding.....

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11 minutes ago, stalky79 said:
46 minutes ago, ayukawa22 said:

. Also the delay in flag off , I suspect is late arrival of VIP. 

This is what I suspect for most running events with delays in flagging off as well... lol

And they would say: the late of GOH's arrival is because of road closure... ????

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3 minutes ago, ZZIZZ said:

? I saw a sensitive word in uppercase letters in the last line... and two words showing the status of that sensitive word in the first line... kidding.....

It was an inadvertent mistake on my part. I have correct my original post. :blush:

In any case, I dun think we should kid about things like this. 

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5 hours ago, kohpapa said:

Uncle ends with best wishes to all. See you in Sundown 2020.

Uncle can stay and contribute more to the discussions here?

2 hours ago, lonewolf said:

I thot SDM was the brainchild of the founder of HiV? So I dun think they 'took over' from some other organiser right?

But I could be wrong becos I only joined SDM 3 times. 2 HM and 1FM. My main reason for stopping this race is well documented in this forum. I still rem my SDM FM with fond memories even though I just managed to avoid the sweeper bus and completed just before the cut off time of 8hrs. Sure I may have been one of the last to cross the line but I dun feel like it was not a 'win' for me. 

I agree with kpp that those who run a FM deserved a quality ELM medal for their efforts. Something which SCSM (or SCMS) and SDM used to give. I only ran 3 FM but I'm glad all my FM medals are ELM medals. 

SDM 2009 - 2010 - Changi Village era, run from Changi Village to ECP then to the housing neighbourhood around marine parade (?)
SDM 2011 - 2013(?) - Changi Exhibition Centre era, run from the ulu Changi Exhibition Centre to ECP and back.
SDM 2014(?) - City run era

I only remembered HiV more prominently as a race organizer when they moved it to a city run. When it first happened, there were many hiccups in terms of hydration.

It might have been a HiV event all along, really can't remember who organized those runs at Changi Village and Changi Exhibition Centre. In those times, all we remembered were the brand names of the runs and nobody ever distinguished them from race organizers. Even in those times, race support was considered good and none of the nonsense FM runners had to endure like lack of hydration support.

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2 hours ago, ayukawa22 said:

Definitely miss the old sundown with "black" elm medals. The new sundown is a total letdown with Organisers after money only. Dun care about race experience and can't even provide the basic hydration needs to runners ESP in this hot / humid weather. Total disgrace to 2nd biggest race in Singapore. Also the delay in flag off , I suspect is late arrival of VIP. 

The delay was to clear obstruction of vehicles for the safety of the runners, i think it understandable. 

Safety of the run is still the top most priority 

 

I reach the station near GBB east with hydration being run out. They cater for the drinks but was not enough. Maybe they will improve and take note of this during next year SDM 

seriously, whether it ELM quality medal or not.. I really find it funny. What’s the purpose of the run.. 

- For health, to achieve a PB, to achieve a longest distance which u have never done, to complete at least how many marathon in yr life. Maybe this are more valid reason 

- instead of ppl posting in this forum, want a better quality medal, for finisher tee, cause Friend or gf jio me run then I paisei to reject.. all sort of funny ppl. 

Pls go to Carousell n purchase yr finisher tee or medal if u only have this objective.. ELM medal maybe customise n pay them to make one for u 

 

 

 

Edited by 77james

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1 hour ago, ZZIZZ said:

And they would say: the late of GOH's arrival is because of road closure... ????

Lol yea man. Convenient reason to push it to road closure issues

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57 minutes ago, stalky79 said:

On a positive note, at least our results are not held ransom... lol

https://www.sportsplits.com/races/15569/

They don't show how far each CP is from each other, only the timing split. Also never show total runners how much.

Also, am I the only one with missing CP6?

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1 hour ago, ayukawa22 said:

Lol yea man. Convenient reason to push it to road closure issues

Seems like ppl don’t read the detail of road closure. Assuming and accusing. 

Please don’t sign up again, since they give so much of negative view n feedback. 

Sign up for other race... I really hope the participation will drop drastically. Still many runners causing bottleneck.. 

thanks for not signing up again to reduce the crowd for whatever reason. Too expensive, Delay in race, no hydration or too far apart, no elm medal, isotonic drink, banana or gel not enough..kudos for not signing up.. 

keep complaining here in forum... really don’t know what to say.. don’t sign up, don’t need to complain... 

 

Edited by 77james

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16 hours ago, prisangel said:

WTF, hydration problem is bad enough. Road marshall or route problem somemore? Anyway I stopped SDM for some years liao. They are charging more than SCSM.

Quote

 

As a first wave runner, I’d been running on the right lane at Nicoll Highway at first but after the u-turn, I then saw the second wave of runners coming straight at me.
So together with some other runners, I ended up crossing the fence to get to the other side of the road.

Apparently this had been a mistake on the part of the organisers. Instead of the right side of the road as we’d been running, we were actually supposed to have taken the left side of the road towards City Hall and then after the u-turn, run on the right side in the direction of the Sports Hub.

 

 

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15 hours ago, kohpapa said:

Uncle ends with best wishes to all. See you in Sundown 2020.

Hi @kohpapa, i agreed with Beast that you should be around more often with your valuable inputs. I believe alot of runners here will benefit reading your views.

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1 hour ago, SG RED DEVIL said:

Hi @kohpapa, i agreed with Beast that you should be around more often with your valuable inputs. I believe alot of runners here will benefit reading your views.

Yeah kohpapa should stay on . We been around for Long in this forum . ?

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18 hours ago, 77james said:

Seems like ppl don’t read the detail of road closure. Assuming and accusing. 

Please don’t sign up again, since they give so much of negative view n feedback. 

Sign up for other race... I really hope the participation will drop drastically. Still many runners causing bottleneck.. 

thanks for not signing up again to reduce the crowd for whatever reason. Too expensive, Delay in race, no hydration or too far apart, no elm medal, isotonic drink, banana or gel not enough..kudos for not signing up.. 

keep complaining here in forum... really don’t know what to say.. don’t sign up, don’t need to complain... 

 

Given their explanation on fb on the road closure, it is hard for people not to "assume and accuse" the organizers because they have not been upfront about the delay, especially onsite during the race. The "unforeseen obstruction on route which had to be cleared to ensure the safety of the runners" was never explained in detailed either. People can form their own conclusion if the organizer wants to give a reason like that.

The bottlenecks this year are mostly not a result of the number of participants, but the sheer "defiance" of the organizer to just open 1 or 2 lanes for running during many parts of the HM/FM shared route.

Participants give their feedback on forums and social media truthfully. What they say about the race is indeed what had happened, so what's wrong with that? You say that  we ""complain"", but these are all constructive comments that will hopefully lead to a better organization next time round. 

If you have not encountered these issues in the race, and are happy with how the race is being organized, good for you!  But don't restrict the others the freedom of expressing what they experience during their own runs.

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44 minutes ago, beast said:

Given their explanation on fb on the road closure, it is hard for people not to "assume and accuse" the organizers because they have not been upfront about the delay, especially onsite during the race. The "unforeseen obstruction on route which had to be cleared to ensure the safety of the runners" was never explained in detailed either. People can form their own conclusion if the organizer wants to give a reason like that.

Came across some work sites, I saw workers used their mobile phones to take pics, to show proof of finished job done.

Perhaps, it will be wise for the organiser in future to also take pics of any situation that caused route obstruction to substantiate their explanation for delay.

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13
22 hours ago, 77james said:

seriously, whether it ELM quality medal or not.. I really find it funny. What’s the purpose of the run.. 

- For health, to achieve a PB, to achieve a longest distance which u have never done, to complete at least how many marathon in yr life. Maybe this are more valid reason 

- instead of ppl posting in this forum, want a better quality medal, for finisher tee, cause Friend or gf jio me run then I paisei to reject.. all sort of funny ppl. 

Pls go to Carousell n purchase yr finisher tee or medal if u only have this objective.. ELM medal maybe customise n pay them to make one for u 

 

All of us here are different individuals here with all unique personalities, interest and motivations. 

Regardless of the reasons, I do not think we should belittle them just because you find it 'funny'. I can assure you that these 'funny' people who want better quality medals and finisher tee are just as passionate about running and joining races as you apparently are.

Your motivations may be less 'funny' and that's commendable on your part.

Surely to suggest that we go Carousel to purchase finisher tee or medals is the worst insult you can make to all of us here. 

 

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I believe that the purpose of most of the people gathering in this forum is to share information, discuss the race events, motivate and encourage for each other... and we just focus on the "things" only, instead of "people". ?

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Actually it is good to share opinions and perspectives. Just a matter of how we want to bring them across and the tone we want to set.

I believe regular runners will not purchase any fiinisher shirt or medal for races they did not participate. These items are not just for 'showing off'. They are items that help you bring back memories of how you actually ran and enjoyed the race.

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I wonder If organisers have contingency plan and prepare for ample time for allowance between cut-off time and road opening.

How does application for road closure actually work? Do organisers tell LTA how many hours they need for road closure? Or LTA specify to organisers they can only have road closure until a certain time? Do they have to pay G or LTA for the road closure? I'm pretty sure organisers die die also must adhere to road opening timing, otherwise, they may have to pay a hefty penalty or get blacklisted.

 

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Good question, and for all to know. 

Uncle has ever sat with the Organisers as Officials for sanctioned Races like Multievent and Marathons. 

Uncle remembered too, once when Infinitius held an Ultra Duothlon Event, it was a day event, never ever exceed beyond any midnight race such as Sundown.

But, Infinitius may not be familiar with hosting a mega event (size of 10,000 participants and more) that stretches to 8 hours and more. Perhaps, being inexperienced, and never organised endurance events in 21km/42km race or even an Ironman 70.3 (6-8 hours Qualifications) like its predecessor (Hivelocity), uncle can understand why, they are never prepared to host Sundown 2019 for this is their very first time. Infinitius is a newbie event organiser for Sundown. 

Are they to be forgiven or not, let all decide. But, they had been warned not to start 21km and 42km waves at the same time. But, Road Closure hours 7pm - 7am (mandatory) please refer below info attached in picture (image). And their decision to go ahead. Let all here see what if you were Infinitius, go ahead with both 21km/42km...or start 42km from 1130pm....then 21km from 1am...or...21km and then 42km....anyway, already hydration already ran out for any start waves from both categories...woes of Sundown 2019 is "Water Can Wait"

Yes, shuttle buses timing.. Once Sundown was held at Changi Exhibition Hall, almost how to get cabs or even MRT then..nearest was at Pasir Ris. So all early finishers slept on the ground, watch Big Screen Movies. Then, we even had a big mock up Tents for Shower Area for both Guys and Girls. Yes, plenty of Entertainment and Lights at the Sundown Village to keep us "happy", "sleep can be restful", while waiting for the shuttle buses all start arriving from 6am onwards. That was the PR of how then Hivelocity came with the backups - to make sure that all Participants for both 21/42 runners to be Safe and Comfortable.

Road Closures was never the issue because Changi Exhibition Hall at end point because all run activities stop at 7am. Not like 1130am - 730am (8 hours) at Sundown 2019. I must admit that Sundown 2019 routes are at major roads of heavy traffic. So, not so easy to go about planning because of TP strict requirements on the placement of barriers (obstacles). See below pictures (images).

Yes, proper planning is important, and backups are important because of weather, and especially what if there is a late (delayed) start.

Source on Road Closure Permit: https://www.police.gov.sg/e-services/apply/licenses-and-permits/road-closure-permit

TP Road Closure Code of Practice (shown as follows) extracted from TP_road_closure_Code_of_Practice_3.pdf

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Yes, every race organiser, especially the Race Director must always ahere to the TP Road Closure Code of Practice for all Local Races. That includes also SCSM. 

So, if uncle should say, why there are cut-off time for road closures almost to the end point such as 25km (U-turn from ECP loop), 35km (exit from ECP loop to the Construction Road heading towards the Garden By the Bay (East)...that always is the area of "Cut-off" time, by 7am (leaving an hour ++ for clearing of any setups or obstacles/barriers)...otherwise, TP will xxxx you.

Edited by kohpapa

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17 minutes ago, kohpapa said:

Good question, and for all to know. 

Uncle has ever sat with the Organisers as Officials for sanctioned Races like Multievent and Marathons. 

Uncle remembered too, once when Infinitius held an Ultra Duothlon Event, it was a day event, never ever exceed beyond any midnight race such as Sundown.

But, Infinitius may not be familiar with hosting a mega event (size of 10,000 participants and more) that stretches to 8 hours and more. Perhaps, being inexperienced, and never organised endurance events in 21km/42km race or even an Ironman 70.3 (6-8 hours Qualifications) like its predecessor (Hivelocity), uncle can understand why, they are never prepared to host Sundown 2019 for this is their very first time. Infinitius is a newbie event organiser for Sundown. 

Are they to be forgiven or not, let all decide. But, they had been warned not to start 21km and 42km waves at the same time. But, Road Closure hours 7pm - 7am. And their decision to go ahead. Let all here see what if you were Infinitius, go ahead with both 21km/42km...or start 42km from 1130pm....then 21km from 1am...

Yes, shuttle buses timing.. Once Sundown was held at Changi Exhibition Hall, almost how to get cabs or even MRT then..nearest was at Pasir Ris. So all early finishers slept on the ground, watch Big Screen TV. Then, we even have a big mock up Showers for both Guys and Girls. Yes, plenty of Entertainment and Lights at the Sundown Village to keep us "happy", while waiting for the shuttle buses all coming from 6am onwards. That was the PR of how then Hivelocity came with the backup. Road Closures was never the issue because Changi Exhibition Hall end point because all stop at 6am. Not like 1130am - 730am (8 hours) at Sundown 2019.

Yes, proper planning is important, and backups are important because of weather, and especially what if there is a late (delayed) start.

Infinitus may not have experience in managing a FM, but they have no excuses of getting very basic things right like providing enough support of hydration, bananas....also opening up only ONE lane of the road for 21km and 42km runners, running at Kallang part where the paths are dark and narrow.... I am not sure how to find excuses for them......

 Pink Apple also organized the 2XU Marathon for the first time to very good reviews - they are also the first organizer that offer cold towel and food at the end of the run, and ice cold hydration throughout.... so why they can do it despite the lack of experience? I conclude the decisions that Infinitus made are just purely not for the interest of their paid runners, but in favour of other reasons (cost cutting etc).

And I cannot understand why organizers love to start 21km and 42km runners together. There was 1 year that Sundown tried this (but I think it was a last minute decision due to some delays in road closures so they have no choice about it), and it ended up disastrous. That stopped for a while until Ironman decided to do this again when they took over SCSM, and while they sort of prevented it from becoming a cluster mess like Sunday's Sundown, it was not desirable for sure. Maybe they thought major overseas runs like Tokyo marathon can flag off 30,000 runners, why not Singapore with much less runners?  

As for Sundown at Changi Exhibition Centre, I remembered quite clearly that shuttle buses were provided at every hour that goes to major MRT stations. Not the 6am onwards that you mentioned. Maybe there were some years that runners chose to stay back and watch soccer matches on the big screens. 

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Sundown is an iconic brand (Made-in-Singapore). To have our guests/visitors from overseas who came here to participate (especially for the first time), and having to queue up for hydration at the WC/Latrines/Toilets this is totally very embarrassing.

A first world country (best in everything, Sports Hub for every sports) but a third world event organiser such as Infinitus, uncle already said at the beginning of this forum thread, not tested, no track record, a practical nobody to replace Hivelocity.

Luckily, there was no major health issue (heat stroke) because this is a Night event. Suffering from insufficient hydration and nutrition in an endurance race is pain and cramp of muscles.

Experiences count here to survive this brutal race. we knew when things go wrong (no water, no banana). We reacted because we are local, because we knew the route of the event well. There was no evidence of others who ran in the maze of the  FMroute (no map to show them, where are there, how much distance is the next hydration/nutrition point). Of course,  complained of crew (road marshalls) went to zZZ (Sleep Can't Wait). We knew, these are student volunteers who just started their school holidays. One shift do all from 7pm - 7am, even if you were a volunteer or crew member, Sleep naturally.

Should Infinitus be forgiven and given a chance in Sundown 2020? 

The difference in a non-Sanctioned race like Sundown, unlike SCSM, is that, nobody really needs to ensure that proper compliance to the rules of safety for the participants of the race. Even if you want to impose Qualifying time, if the logistics planning (from event start, road-closure, route planning - included roads narrowing, park connectors paths narrowing - some authority (such as Running Body or Association) and even as Uncle acted as Official to ensure Sanction Race must comply to the Rules of Competition, Safety First must ensure in the Planning with the Race Director.

Profit above everything else. Participants pay to run (many outside the running community laugh at why pay such high price to run, when you can run freely). True, even when uncle runs with a Free entry, it doesn't mean that uncle should be made to DIY on hydration and nutrition needs - the basics of survivals to ensure everyone has a Safe Run.  

Unless Infinitus choose to maximise profit - yes, pay more for logistics planning next time, then make runners (clients) pay more, or absorb losses to save Face value for First Time Mistake. Again, we are down to the little disagreement in the beginning of this forum thread, does hosting/organising of Marathon Runs really make money (profit) or loss.

Again, we go to Sundown 2020 with Infinitus, learning from its maiden Sundown, move on for the next Decade. 

A Decade ago, Hivelocity also made not so serious hiccups like what Infinitus did this year, because the team were passionate endurance runners and triathletes. They were experienced and had taken part in overseas events (competitions). Because of that, they would want to bring to Singapore, an endurance race that is first time in Asia - A Night Marathon.

But, will we forgive and forget what Infinitus does in Sundown 2019. Uncle would suggest - show and evidence to us - your Infinitus Top Guns - who are you and show face, are you as credible as Hivelocity Team, as passionate in Sports of Endurance Events, or just a bunch of administrators. It is just like asking a non-Run event organiser to "feel" - do you know that it is so difficult to run without hydration for almost 5km...why not you run yourself and show us. If you don't have IT (competent to Run the Talk), then don't show Face to disgrace the Running Community in organising one that is the laughing talk in Town, "Only losers (kumkong - an expression means stupid) pay to run, and to drink toilet water".

Sundown in Taiwan once was "WanTan" - Egg Broken. Sundown in Home Ground is "WanTan" - Egg Broken once again.   

Yes, Liverpool won 2-0 UEFA Cup on Sundown 2019. Congratulations.

Sundown is soundly beaten in both in Overseas and at Home, 0-2 with such humiliating  "We are kumkong runners who pay to drink toilet water." 

Edited by kohpapa

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