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prisangel

OSIM Sundown Marathon - 1 June 2019

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Read the numerous negative comments on sundown FB. Never expect this to happen as Sundown has been around for many years and is reputed as the 2nd biggest local race after SCSM.

 

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6 hours ago, beast said:

Wave C runners had it worse.

1. Delay flagged off for about 20 to 30 mins with no reason given. Cut off time was not extended so added pressure for us. Also saw checkpoints at 34km and 39km which I suppose runners who did not cross by 6am and 7am respectively will not be allowed to continue.

2. Hydration stations ran out of water or closed shop. I counted there were probably about 8 such cases so for runners who never bring money to buy drinks from vending machines they suffer long distances without water.

3. The lanes with the 21km runners were horribly short. Not only were they only 1 or 2 lanes wide, the walkers made things worse.

And lastly who came up with the design of the finisher medal? It was really bad. And to suffer several hours for a cheapo piece of plastic is really demoralizing.

Saw their post on FB, addressing your issues:

Screenshot_20190602-155742_Samsung Internet.jpg

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kohpapa said:

I believe I saw the Sweeper Bus (dark red) parked at the Construction Site just after exiting from ECP route.  Soory about your friend's first DNF for Sundown Marathon, tell you friend to next time when register for Sundown, go for Pen A or B...surely no DNF, and save the embarrassment of actually if there is no road closure, your friend would have completed on own's merit. Don't know if your friend still really want to go for Sundown since this is not even a Qualification Race like SCSM.

At the Starting Point, it was true that drizzles at F1 began to upset and worry many thousands who have yet to start and that was already 12 midnight. Blah blah blah, updates, road is not clear, safety issue. Wonder if they have factored in on the delay start which they have caused into those that really do not need to deserve DNF. Anywhere, is there a Timer to remind, or notice to inform, or just waiting for all come out from ECP and be told, "Sorry folks, the road is closed, try harder next year!"

End point, uncle was happy with SCSM, collection of medals and tees is so reachable. Collection of drinks, banana and crackers after were just from the tents beside, extend all the way to F1. This Sundown one must go for another 100m stretch to reach end point, and walked further to get Beverages of Water and Pocari (and of course, no more Bananas wondered where have they disappeared to?), and another 100m to go F1 to collect medals and tees (no comments on the entitlements, since uncle felt that finishing tee is really "ugly" and the medal can be used for coaster for my kopi cup).

As a goodwill for the free bib, uncle shall return them  to my friend who was injured and still remained "injured" for Goldcoast Marathon. Uncle was asked, "Want free bib to run Goldcoast Marathon or not?" Uncle replied, "Does it come with free air ticket and accommodations?"

Pls to do anyhow advise people... Pen A and B is for fast runner. A lot of inconsiderate runner with a “bo chap” attitude is making the runner a disgrace. 

I am also a slow runner...i cannot even run at the speed of the “slowest” pacer of 5.30 timing. 

Seriously finishing at 6 hours plus is literally walking a lot and nothing to proud of. Ppl are running sub 3,4 or 5 hours

The cut off time was 730am which was  quite generous. Only Singapore race got this so long of cut off timing... pls  read other oversea race... don’t be a tortoise in Singapore 

 

 

Edited by 77james

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10km winner nimesh was directed wrong route by bike Marshall... but he still won...

this year sundown really is ....

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Posted (edited)

So overall Infinitius maiden FM organisation is a pass or fail?

Seems like more negative than positive comments.

Compared to HiV which is better? 

Edited by lonewolf

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SDM is making mistakes over e last few years.. somehow i feel lucky or glad i no longer interested to participate in SDM  anymore.. in fact e negative feedbk n  mishandling is making me losing all e interest to go for it.. 

Read from fb.. participants abandoned e race at start line with no reason on y late start.. this is just bad! 

 

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51 minutes ago, 77james said:

Pls to do anyhow advise people... Pen A and B is for fast runner. A lot of inconsiderate runner with a “bo chap” attitude is making the runner a disgrace. 

I am also a slow runner...i cannot even run at the speed of the “slowest” pacer of 5.30 timing. 

Seriously finishing at 6 hours plus is literally walking a lot and nothing to proud of. Ppl are running sub 3,4 or 5 hours

The cut off time was 730am which was  quite generous. Only Singapore race got this so long of cut off timing... pls  read other oversea race... don’t be a tortoise in Singapore 

 

 

To solve the problem, sundown marathon organisers can implement  next time want go pen A to show proof that you can clear a fm 4hrs and faster lor. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 77james said:

Pls to do anyhow advise people... Pen A and B is for fast runner. A lot of inconsiderate runner with a “bo chap” attitude is making the runner a disgrace. 

I am also a slow runner...i cannot even run at the speed of the “slowest” pacer of 5.30 timing. 

Seriously finishing at 6 hours plus is literally walking a lot and nothing to proud of. Ppl are running sub 3,4 or 5 hours

The cut off time was 730am which was  quite generous. Only Singapore race got this so long of cut off timing... pls  read other oversea race... don’t be a tortoise in Singapore 

wah, very strong "wording"...only in singapore, 7.5 hour is quite generous, and "tortoise"....surely, only Singapore promotes "tortoise" race, purely marathon running is meant for the community at large, mess run and is recreational.

Uncle is not recommending, it is the way, when you sign up for races (only first time for Sundown with the maiden organiser), you can opt what is the best option (Pen A, B and C) for you, and remember, uncle did not choose Pen B, it was orginally assigned as a free bib for me. I asked my bro, why you choose, he told me the same reason, because he can start early and so can go back early, a matter of convenience. Likedat is the reason not "bochap" attitude. Given the opportunity, why go with Pen C with highest chance of being cut-off?

Why not choose Pen C?, look at examples of Pen C runner's testimony, slow runners, but if given a course of 42 km to run without road closures, you want to pay for 35KM when you can actually finish in 42km...and only in Singapore, cut off time is not "time of 7.5 hours"...cut of time is primarily for road closures, and please bro, check your facts on local regulation on road closure and @james, slowest at 5.5 hours...you are better than those who aim for 7.5 hour and newbie right?, surprise you still Pen C.

By the way @james, at 5.5 hours, next time go for Pen B, so you can be made to be motivated to do 4++ hours because you have been recommended by uncle, happy? Don't be "tortoise" in your world, and if since are so happy about whats from overseas races,  then go for "tortoise" category in overseas race and talk at respective forum...lol

Edited by kohpapa

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, yh90 said:

To solve the problem, sundown marathon organisers can implement  next time want go pen A to show proof that you can clear a fm 4hrs and faster lor. 

Yes, thank you @yh90, because this is the first time they organise sundown, and so what is proof is there to show...Pen A is who they claim to be...same applies to Pen B and Pen C....what if Pen A runner turn out late and join Pen C and get DNF for the same reason

Edited by kohpapa

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2 minutes ago, kohpapa said:

Yes, thank you @yh90, because this is the first time they organise sundown, and so what is proof is there to show...Pen A is who they claim to be...same applies to Pen B and Pen C....what if Pen A runner turn out late and join Pen C and get DNF for the same reason

Seen during last year sundown HM, when I paced a friend who managed to get her first sub 2 HM, got ppl from pen A after first few km start to walk le.

Hence I felt it should be this way.

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14 minutes ago, delldell314 said:

SDM is making mistakes over e last few years.. somehow i feel lucky or glad i no longer interested to participate in SDM  anymore.. in fact e negative feedbk n  mishandling is making me losing all e interest to go for it.. 

Read from fb.. participants abandoned e race at start line with no reason on y late start.. this is just bad! 

 

Actually, the organiser (Infinitius) whom uncle knew worked once as official in multievent (they organised Duathlon - Run-Bike-Run). Todaym when I observed why 1km start hydation point, then I realised they implemented multi-event format, and they placed the next hydration at the exit of Sports Hub.

Uncle highlighted, Infinitius only convenient themselves in the placement of their logistics for runners, but runners expect the old sundown of 2km water, 2km 100plus (this time pocari)...and bananas missing?...instead gels abundant (from vendors)...so uncle who had taken gels because it is not "natural" nutrition, had to take gels because how can uncle survive the FM run...short of nutrition and hydration (hot and high humidity - needs electrolytes)

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9 minutes ago, yh90 said:

Seen during last year sundown HM, when I paced a friend who managed to get her first sub 2 HM, got ppl from pen A after first few km start to walk le.

Hence I felt it should be this way.

Yes, it is always assumed that Pen A are fast runners, motivation is high, "pushed to excel" by fellow runners of same category...Pen B and C, not so sure, it is more of "cut queue" to start early and go back early.

Uncle remembered in one SCSM @ Orchard, an angmo runner with Pen F, came to Pen B and said, I need to catch a flight, and I am able to make 4 hours, so that i can catch a flight home today. There was unpleasant encounter with the angmo runner and the security at the Pen B. Challenging and almost fight breakout.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lonewolf said:

So overall Infinitius maiden FM organisation is a pass or fail?

Seems like more negative than positive comments.

Compared to HIV which is better? 

@lonewolf and uncle had been in this forum thread long enough, uncle only talked sundown, besides SCSM.

1. Medal is no long ELM - the mark of Quality for the deserving Runners who complete Sundown.

2. No cutoff time then, because Sundown originated as a Community Run event. It has once been run in Public Housing Estates, even use Overhead Bridges as part of the Race Route. We cross traffic junctions like nobody business then, but always, the Community Volunteers offer to assist the Logistics with flags and warning to Pedestrians.

3. Hivelocity is Sundown, and so it has sold off, everyone here was surprised and always, they will remember their first maiden Marathon, Hivelocity offers Night Marathon to those who if take part in the Day SCMS, maybe they may DNF.

4. Uncle remembered Hivelocity because of Osim Ironman 70.3 and many events where they are known to supply Timers for races (charity ones or otherwise). Sundown had once gone global, and the Taiwan Sundown was the turning point, because of the bad reputation, Sundown became "WonTong" meaning "Broken Egg".

5. As for Infinitius, uncle knew they were once part of the Hivelocity that was in both Osim Ironman 70.3 and Sundown events. A breakaway from Hivelocity consists of younger ones. They may have the senior staff that was once from Hivelocity. But, uncle noticed key players in Infinitius are unknown ones in who's who in Marathon or Triathlon. Hivelocity has strong branding among runners and triathletes, local and overseas (malaysia especially), because we know the key teams and based of their reputations, we enjoy participating in any event that with the name "Hivelocity"

6. Uncle's Rating, give Infinitius 1 star out of 5, with a chance to prove (redeem with the many misgiving mistakes that were made today) to us, that if you do not deliver like Hivelocity, then better don't do mega event like Sundown. Go and do small-scale race hosting or "tortoise" races, maybe POSB for kids, and make sure the Kids are happy...and "bo chap" and "sebei critical sgRunners type" you must learn to handle the situations well...because we are your clients, and don't impose your way on what was not communicated....by the way, save some money to buy bananas...say got, but no see boxes of bananas...what, monkeying business...

Edited by kohpapa

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1 hour ago, yh90 said:

To solve the problem, sundown marathon organisers can implement  next time want go pen A to show proof that you can clear a fm 4hrs and faster lor. 

Agreed. They should have record of previous runner participating in previous SDM and with timing and place them accordingly. Not let runner choose their start pen of A by stating they can complete in 3-4 hours... in fact they are slow runner and hogging the lane.. some Friend in group of 3-4 can even walk in a row and chatting..

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1 hour ago, kohpapa said:

wah, very strong "wording"...only in singapore, 7.5 hour is quite generous, and "tortoise"....surely, only Singapore promotes "tortoise" race, purely marathon running is meant for the community at large, mess run and is recreational.

Uncle is not recommending, it is the way, when you sign up for races (only first time for Sundown with the maiden organiser), you can opt what is the best option (Pen A, B and C) for you, and remember, uncle did not choose Pen B, it was orginally assigned as a free bib for me. I asked my bro, why you choose, he told me the same reason, because he can start early and so can go back early, a matter of convenience. Likedat is the reason not "bochap" attitude. Given the opportunity, why go with Pen C with highest chance of being cut-off?

Why not choose Pen C?, look at examples of Pen C runner's testimony, slow runners, but if given a course of 42 km to run without road closures, you want to pay for 35KM when you can actually finish in 42km...and only in Singapore, cut off time is not "time of 7.5 hours"...cut of time is primarily for road closures, and please bro, check your facts on local regulation on road closure and @james, slowest at 5.5 hours...you are better than those who aim for 7.5 hour and newbie right?, surprise you still Pen C.

By the way @james, at 5.5 hours, next time go for Pen B, so you can be made to be motivated to do 4++ hours because you have been recommended by uncle, happy? Don't be "tortoise" in your world, and if since are so happy about whats from overseas races,  then go for "tortoise" category in overseas race and talk at respective forum...lol

. I asked my bro, why you choose, he told me the same reason, because he can start early and so can go back early, a matter of convenience. Likedat is the reason not "bochap" attitude. Given the opportunity, why go with Pen C with highest chance of being cut-off?

Thats inconsiderate - start early go back early and just to place in Pen A or B. Seriously i know a lot of this type of inconsiderate people in Singapore. 

Highest chances of cut off in Pen C? Not correct.. cut off at 7.30am 

 

By the way @james, at 5.5 hours, next time go for Pen B, so you can be made to be motivated to do 4++ hours because you have been recommended by uncle, happy?

i already say i completed in 6 hour plus.. so not even qualified for Pen B, seems like u don’t read. 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you @james, we had never agreed, but it has been good to disagree, and yes, if there is any misunderstandings, our target here is on improvement on our local race. If I have fail to read, or interprete what you have written wholeheartedly, uncle apologise to you sincerely.

It has been a long day for all who had been to Sundown  Marathon: Thirsty, Hungry, Angry, Tired and yet we still want to Recall what else experiences that still make us unforgetable about the new Sundown with the maiden Infinitius. Btw, I just recovered from my beauty sleep #3 or #4 ?.

Uncle did say a week ago, Sundown has never being any kind of Qualification Race to be like SCSM, because if what Infinitius has done today, they are never ready for any mega-event, no need to compare Infinitius with IronAsia in hosting of marathon events. IronAsia is a world-class host, and in 2018 SCSM, all of us gave thumbs-up review, of course, uncle again had issue with the cut-off time due to road closures, because uncle chose to go the last wave to experience first-hand how to be cut and sliced in stages. It was very real - silently, very hurtful and embarrassing experiences for those whom uncle witnessed - why me and not the earlier waves which could have been. You can read @SCMS 2018.

Everyone would agree that portaloos today, how many dare actually to use it? I had one runner today at Construction site near to the ECP, complained that this only one portaloo is already one-ton of shit. I entered and I see (dare not want to describe what I smell). The next one available will be the cleaner public washing point at Fort Road (ECP), I told him.  We joked, please remember to bring along banana leaves in case there is no paper for "cleaning up" at the next portaloo. Yes, banana "talk" for there is no logistics for bananas.

 

Edited by kohpapa

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On the discussion regarding cut-off time to starting pens, my opinion is:

1) I can run HM in 2.5 hrs doesn't mean I can complete FM in 5 hrs. This is because fatigue set in. I could perhaps finish in less than 6 hrs, but being a FM newbie, I prefer to take it easier at the last pen so that I won't be a drag to other runners. 

2) Anyone that completes a 42 km, albeit 7 - 8 hrs, is a winner. For a slow runner, or someone with age and or started late, it is a 'win' not in the time you complete the race, but rather in the mindset and endurance that you completed 42 km. A doubt a person walking most of the way is able to complete 42 km within 8 hrs.

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4 hours ago, 77james said:

Agreed. They should have record of previous runner participating in previous SDM and with timing and place them accordingly. Not let runner choose their start pen of A by stating they can complete in 3-4 hours... in fact they are slow runner and hogging the lane.. some Friend in group of 3-4 can even walk in a row and chatting..

Cant be from any iaaf certified race for fm and hm wise, any sg hm? 

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16 hours ago, AdiZero said:

Actually pardon me to ask something, if its the same route, same scenery, yet price keep increasing, goodie bag basically has advertisement papers, and the standard always not there, why u guys dun give it a miss?

I stopped Sundown sometime back, not bec its night time and i feel sleepy to run  but its basically the same route, same scenery, and certainly most important the standard is not there! U guys actually can give runs a miss one, does'nt mean every race in Singapore u have to run.

Sometimes running a bad race, makes u more angry. Save up some of the local race money and venture overseas, u get to see different culture, different route and a whole new experience !

Most of my friends whom I have known through running have already moved on to from local runs for the same reasons you have mentioned. 

I cannot speak for all the runners who keep on supporting local runs, but for me the reasons I keep joining is because:

1) The longer you join, the harder it is to just pull away and call it quits, especially when you look back at the history of the runs and the memories of how you have been involved in the past. 

2) Truth be told, last night's terrible organization was not a surprise to me at all, having been through so many years of Sundown teaches me that I will always need to be self-sufficient and bring along money for drinks, bring your own gels and muscle rubs etc.  In a way it kinda defeats the purpose of signing up for a run then, other than just soak in the environment of a mass run.

3) It may be very easy to say just go for overseas runs, and this is especially so for singles with no other commitments, or have like minded friends and partners that share the same running passion to go overseas. Besides the finances you have to pull aside, for those with family commitments, especially if  you do not have a partner that does not share the same running passion as you, there is a great deal of planning, adjustments and convincing that you will have to undertake before you can go for that overseas run. It is really not just a simple task of registering for the run, book your flight and hotel and that's it. In the end, going for that local run is really the most convenient way to satisfy your enjoyment or challenge of a HM/FM.

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17 hours ago, kohpapa said:

This event, Hosts claimed less than 10,000 for both HM and FM.

I also noticed that this edition of Sundown, there were less foreign runners, especially from China.

11 hours ago, starfinder said:

Read the numerous negative comments on sundown FB. Never expect this to happen as Sundown has been around for many years and is reputed as the 2nd biggest local race after SCSM.

 

The history of the run has nothing to do with the fact that the organizer Infinitius was the first time organizing a FM.

And sadly they resort to the "bad habits" of cost cutting from the previous organizer. 

10 hours ago, sicklycat said:

Saw their post on FB, addressing your issues:

Screenshot_20190602-155742_Samsung Internet.jpg

1) It was never clearly told to the runners the reason for the delay, despite the DJs repeating themselves and saying that they are the mouthpieces of the organizers. Had they say that the delay was due to unforeseen obstruction of the road I think many runners won't be so pissed. 

2) Shortage was due to logistical issues of the deployment of the water? Meaning that they never cater enough to the stations in the first place? 

 

10 hours ago, lonewolf said:

So overall Infinitius maiden FM organisation is a pass or fail?

Seems like more negative than positive comments.

Compared to HIV which is better? 

Definitely a fail. It reminds me of the early years of HIV when they first took over - I think HIV did improve over the years but the improvements never really got to a point where it was satisfactory to many of the runners.

And Kohpapa said it best in his reply to your question - I can't really think of anything else to add to that.

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3 hours ago, yh90 said:

Cant be from any iaaf certified race for fm and hm wise, any sg hm? 

Actually whether it IAAF certified race or not really doesn’t matter. My Garmin recorded the distance was quite near to 42km or using apps like strava was also quite accurate.  What I know of as long for FM if got timing to proof will be all right. 

Singapore FM - SCMS,SDM or 2XU Ultra marathon will timing to proof. 

HM -  2XU compression run, Marina run, SD, AHM, CSC run, SCMS 

But there are running events like Newton challenge- which are not organising this few years for whatever reason. As Long able to proof with previous timing will be all right. 

I believe using of oversea race timing for respective start Pen will be also feasible with similar condition. 

Even always heard ppl say timing will improve... but I doubt so. Cause it the same distance. Unless yr training really improve tremendously 

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Posted (edited)

Uncle would like to end in this forum thread with these thoughts:

1. Over the years, technology in running has allowed better ways to train and even if there is a race or not, there is always virtual race where runner can even run without even needing "participate". DIY technology allows accurate timing, even inform you on the nutrition and hydration needs from the statistics from your training, and as such, running can be made independent of organiser in race, virtual run is technology at its best.

2. Sundown, as being the only Evening Run in the past decade, has now failed to attracted messes. Truely, China with such advanced in Technology, would have laughed at local race, such as Sundown, why so low-tech, can't even have an app to show "live".

3. Sundown 2019 Logistics planning during the race at its worst, having to apologise to the public after the event. uncle has shared, it is expected that runners are able to DIY "supplement" their needs, since there are always wearables of runner's nutrition and hydration. Already seen many had prepared, including uncle who simply go vendor machines and supplement my craving needs. Who need to bother to tell organiser why there is no water, no banana, no pocari, no food. 

4. Uncle remained in this forum is to remembered those that used to be here, and perhaps missing those memories of "bonding" of friendship of running clubs which is "real people". Gadgets of technology indeed has replaced the need to be contactable of running together as groups say, every Tuesday evening, meet at Sports Hub for run. Every Saturday morning, meet at Fort Road Toilet at ECP. Sorry, no time, got to work. We can track each other running remotely and keep in contact in monitoring each other progress in running, day and night. 

5. Sadly, uncle has witnessed many forummers have left in this thread, because, what has happened is also, there are other alternatives to running, go mobile. Why run when when you have mobile devices or even biking that "assist" you to move or ride. Exercises with good health and fitness can be attained without the need to run. Of course, some have retired from running. Not surprising.

4. Lastly, perhaps, whether Qualification is IAAF or not, everyone still has a choice. Overseas races with varied attractions and uniquely blessed with seasons to counter local hot and humid condition which is always to challenge to run, and there is always no need Qualification to register. 

5. Why bother, if Sundown can be a become a legacy in uncle's memory, it is actually beginning to seem to be without Hivelocity who had been in Sundown in the last Decade. 

With these thoughts, Uncle actually is legacy in this forum thread year after year. If reviving the "good" old days when this forum thread once was filled with fun and laughter with running club mates sharing their training agenda (FatBird running club used to be the official running partner in Sundown) encouraging and motivating each other to strive for their best and overcoming newbies' anxiety on how to complete their first marathon with running practices. Then, there was no such technology, it was pure human concerns and bonding. Technology has succeeded in replacing the bonding and the needs, since there is no need  with reason to meet to improve training: DIY gadgets, Social Media platform, Youtubes on How to, and others actually can do. Who needs coaching and friendly advice anyway, or come to the forum (which has many has said,  forum is legacy compare with Social Media platforms).

Well, it has been a pleasure to make comments here. Sorry for being vocal over nothings. But, having real bros and sis here to share, the feeling of being "social" in Forum. Also, thanks to those that chose to remain faithfully here who are real bros and sis of the Running Community.

If Local race like Sundown (once boasted as Asia's First Night Marathon), if at the state of where it is, with Infinitius taking over Hivelocity, it needs to really wake up and improve. "Sleeping Cannot Wait" for Infinitius in Sundown 2020, because Sundown used to be a famous local race brand, and to have it being made as a "tortoise" category in overseas run here, it is indeed very humiliating honour to the local running community. As such, we made comments here is to improve our local race.

Uncle ends with best wishes to all. See you in Sundown 2020.

Edited by kohpapa

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6 hours ago, beast said:

Definitely a fail. It reminds me of the early years of HIV when they first took over - I think HIV did improve over the years but the improvements never really got to a point where it was satisfactory to many of the runners.

And Kohpapa said it best in his reply to your question - I can't really think of anything else to add to that.

I thot SDM was the brainchild of the founder of HiV? So I dun think they 'took over' from some other organiser right?

But I could be wrong becos I only joined SDM 3 times. 2 HM and 1FM. My main reason for stopping this race is well documented in this forum. I still rem my SDM FM with fond memories even though I just managed to avoid the sweeper bus and completed just before the cut off time of 8hrs. Sure I may have been one of the last to cross the line but I dun feel like it was not a 'win' for me. 

I agree with kpp that those who run a FM deserved a quality ELM medal for their efforts. Something which SCSM (or SCMS) and SDM used to give. I only ran 3 FM but I'm glad all my FM medals are ELM medals. 

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Definitely miss the old sundown with "black" elm medals. The new sundown is a total letdown with Organisers after money only. Dun care about race experience and can't even provide the basic hydration needs to runners ESP in this hot / humid weather. Total disgrace to 2nd biggest race in Singapore. Also the delay in flag off , I suspect is late arrival of VIP. 

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