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lonewolf

2XU SG-Ultra Marathon (07 Oct - 08 Oct)

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5 minutes ago, RunningGuild said:

4. So why did we stop the relay category? Because of people cheating the system. For example, you have a team of 6 runners paying relay price for 100 miles but ended up instead of 1 runner from 1 CP to the other, you can have the whole team running together & attempting to finish the whole 100 miles together. 

Wow......this one really wow :startle:!!! Can't believe there are such 'cheaters'. I'm speechless....

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There are cheaters in many events. Seen it with my own eyes at Sg and Chanthaburi marathon. Of course there have been naming and shaming online for other marathons. At the end of the day they cheat themselves and their integrity. 

Cheaper for them to purchase the t-shirt/medal from folk who are selling them on e-bay. 

Even in Twilight 2015: some runners cut the corner to run along the straight drain line rather than go along the curved path. When one went, more followed like sheep. The difference in distance may not be that much when done once but repeated over time.

Edited by Lady Ice

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47 minutes ago, Lady Ice said:

There are cheaters in many events. Seen it with my own eyes at Sg and Chanthaburi marathon. Of course there have been naming and shaming online for other marathons. At the end of the day they cheat themselves and their integrity. 

Cheaper for them to purchase the t-shirt/medal from folk who are selling them on e-bay. 

Even in Twilight 2015: some runners cut the corner to run along the straight drain line rather than go along the curved path. When one went, more followed like sheep. The difference in distance may not be that much when done once but repeated over time.

understand your view point... talking about "rats" or we call cheaters bluntly... I just can't help to mention on this incident where I saw cheaters right in front of my eyes and in broad daylight (sorry for those who hear this umpteen times)...

during SCSM (or called SCMS) for the last few editions, running through ECP of about 20km is a norm for the FM category. imagine going into the ECP at approximately 12km and exiting at nearly 31km.. one will be real tired, famished and soaked in sweat when exiting ECP... imagine when you run passed runners who are either, strolling, walking holding hands (couple), clothes totally dry, laughing and talking loudly, and there I am, panting to continue my 6mins pace, breathing hard, perspiration dripping down from my soaked shorts (since running from about 4.30am)... then when I run past them and turn around to see their bib, indeed its the FM category.. Even if you want to cheat, please behave like a cheater and don't make it feel that there is nothing wrong with it.... :showoff:

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37 minutes ago, AutumnRunner said:

during SCSM (or called SCMS) for the last few editions, running through ECP of about 20km is a norm for the FM category. imagine going into the ECP at approximately 12km and exiting at nearly 31km.. one will be real tired, famished and soaked in sweat when exiting ECP... imagine when you run passed runners who are either, strolling, walking holding hands (couple), clothes totally dry, laughing and talking loudly, and there I am, panting to continue my 6mins pace, breathing hard, perspiration dripping down from my soaked shorts (since running from about 4.30am)... then when I run past them and turn around to see their bib, indeed its the FM category.. Even if you want to cheat, please behave like a cheater and don't make it feel that there is nothing wrong with it.... :showoff:

Wahahaha - how should a cheater feel? What if they have rationalised that it is owed to them since it has been paid for?

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On 10/9/2017 at 2:03 PM, beast said:

Oh wow.... not sure who did the BBQ, and were they burnt etc.  Seems like a luxurious item solely for the 100km runners.

 

I am a bit surprised that there were no negative experiences either, given Epic-ESR's track record of running Marina Run.

Will also sign up for 50km next year if schedules permitting.

The BBQ was setup by the organizers. Can't comment on the food but should be decent lah :) Many pacers for 10/21km were there too, as a post race gathering and also cheering the 100km ultra runners.

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4 hours ago, Lady Ice said:

There were 2 CPs for the 21km & 10km that were manned on the way out. 

All the CPs listed for the ultras were manned. The last 3 CPs that were specifically for the ultras did have isotonic. The 2 CPs that were for the 21km/10km events were unmanned on the return leg. (see my post on page 3). They were a bonus as thought they would be taken away. So yes at the 2 unmanned CPs that had been assigned to the 10/21km runners anyone could help themselves with the F&B. Though doubt it as this is Singapore :D 

The 10/21km events would have CPs every 5 km where as the ultras would have CPs 6-9km on the return leg.

I was one of the last runners.

Ah OK I understand now. I am assuming that they left the water there so that they don't have to transport them back. Still, it is a weird decision and seems not very fair to paid runners.

3 hours ago, RunningGuild said:

3. 2nd & 3rd runner onwards waiting for long hours - yes, this is usually true as the runners tend to under-estimate their arrival time & will have a chain effect on their teammates' waiting time. BUT, to eliminate this issue, we outsourced the timing process to one that featured live updates and team members were able to gauge with a good degree of accuracy roughly what time to expect their previous runner to arrive at the CP. This actually significantly reduced the waiting time. We did pay a heavy price (yes, live updates are not cheap) for the service and it continues to blunt our revenue from the event. 

4. So why did we stop the relay category? Because of people cheating the system. For example, you have a team of 6 runners paying relay price for 100 miles but ended up instead of 1 runner from 1 CP to the other, you can have the whole team running together & attempting to finish the whole 100 miles together. 

3. Since the relay has stopped now, would you guys consider stopping the live update service? It is a very good to have but if it means cutting down some costs for the runners, it might be a luxury that runners may potentially do without to save some money. You can do a survey as to if this is something that ultra runners need.

4. Shouldn't there be just 1 bib for the relay runners? During the handover of the legs they should pass that bib over to the other runner as well. That way you need not worry about the team cheaters.

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@beast it's a good event that can be better as highlighted by @yaoxing.  Though I will suggest to make sure it is cupless next time and there are no foods that offer packaging to runners.

Anyhow for a bit of a trash read here is my write up: https://tyrelady.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/68-or-69-2xu-sg-ultra-marathon-trash-runners/

Might not be quite what you are expecting :D

Edited by Lady Ice

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Greetings to all ultramarathoners...and for those who love to run the eastern coastal park connector for anything ultra..

EASTERN COASTAL PARK CONNECTOR NETWORK

yiCKhc6.jpg

95% of the Eastern Coastal Park connector..great marathon races were once held here...and now Ultra Marathon...

First 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009... 

YimAsK7.jpg

Starting Point: Changi Exhibition Centre...then Aviation Park Road...Changi Coastal Road...

Sundown Marathon 2011 (May 28)

Gp4ua8J.jpg

Sundown Ultra Marathon 2011 (June 25)...Starting Point: Marina Barrage...route almost like the first 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009...bedok reservoir is the U-turn @50km...

10km pit stops...ECP Beacon Tower, Tanah Merah Canel, Changi Point, Pasir Ris and Bedok Reservoir...and return to Marina Barrage...

2km signage along the route...50km... lamp posts with signage from changi point along loyang just before pasir ris...

Nkk9WoY.jpg

Sundown Ultra Marathon 2013 (Sept 14)...Starting Point: Marina Barrage...4 laps of 25km...

9aCaTZ5.jpg

East Coast Park, Fort Road to Changi Coast Walk
Latest Development...Changi Airport Terminal 5...RSAF Changi Airbase..this is the new route for 2xu-sg-ultra marathon...

bgz32q.jpg

before from tanah merah canel, just cross road take 8.5 km along the "existing changi coast road"...now take a longer route 12.5 km...Tanah Merah Coast Road with 4 PCN shelters..no toilet facilities...

yes, uncle continues this route from marina barrage....changi point for fun run...with the tanah merah coast road as the greatest challenge...hydration, no toilet break, and if heavy monsoon rain good luck...thunder alert...good luck...

tenah merah coast road is a favourite for bikers...an extended side road...and if any runner seen at tenah merah coast road....they are true ultra runners...preserved and determined....try loop this one...this is a 25km route...

Edited by kohpapa

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4 hours ago, kohpapa said:

Greetings to all ultramarathoners...and for those who love to run the eastern coastal park connector for anything ultra..

EASTERN COASTAL PARK CONNECTOR NETWORK

yiCKhc6.jpg

95% of the Eastern Coastal Park connector..great marathon races were once held here...and now Ultra Marathon...

First 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009... 

YimAsK7.jpg

Starting Point: Changi Exhibition Centre...then Aviation Park Road...Changi Coastal Road...

Sundown Marathon 2011 (May 28)

Gp4ua8J.jpg

Sundown Ultra Marathon 2011 (June 25)...Starting Point: Marina Barrage...route almost like the first 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009...bedok reservoir is the U-turn @50km...

10km pit stops...ECP Beacon Tower, Tanah Merah Canel, Changi Point, Pasir Ris and Bedok Reservoir...and return to Marina Barrage...

2km signage along the route...50km... lamp posts with signage from changi point along loyang just before pasir ris...

Nkk9WoY.jpg

Sundown Ultra Marathon 2013 (Sept 14)...Starting Point: Marina Barrage...4 laps of 25km...

9aCaTZ5.jpg

East Coast Park, Fort Road to Changi Coast Walk
Latest Development...Changi Airport Terminal 5...RSAF Changi Airbase..this is the new route for 2xu-sg-ultra marathon...

bgz32q.jpg

before from tanah merah canel, just cross road take 8.5 km along the "existing changi coast road"...now take a longer route 12.5 km...Tanah Merah Coast Road with 4 PCN shelters..no toilet facilities...

yes, uncle continues this route from marina barrage....changi point for fun run...with the tanah merah coast road as the greatest challenge...hydration, no toilet break, and if heavy monsoon rain good luck...thunder alert...good luck...

tenah merah coast road is a favourite for bikers...an extended side road...and if any runner seen at tenah merah coast road....they are true ultra runners...preserved and determined....try loop this one...this is a 25km route...

Hello. Long time no see. 

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6 hours ago, kohpapa said:

Greetings to all ultramarathoners...and for those who love to run the eastern coastal park connector for anything ultra..

EASTERN COASTAL PARK CONNECTOR NETWORK

yiCKhc6.jpg

95% of the Eastern Coastal Park connector..great marathon races were once held here...and now Ultra Marathon...

First 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009... 

YimAsK7.jpg

Starting Point: Changi Exhibition Centre...then Aviation Park Road...Changi Coastal Road...

 

wah.... nostalgic...Coincidentally this is my first ever FM and it somehow brought back memories of my "anyhow training" before the race.... and the 5-6 bridges to cross and some road crossings as well with Traffic police guarding the roads send back real good memories....

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14 hours ago, Lady Ice said:

@beast it's a good event that can be better as highlighted by @yaoxing.  Though I will suggest to make sure it is cupless next time and there are no foods that offer packaging to runners.

Anyhow for a bit of a trash read here is my write up: https://tyrelady.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/68-or-69-2xu-sg-ultra-marathon-trash-runners/

Might not be quite what you are expecting :D

Good write up, highlighting the ugly side of many runners and races here in Singapore. Maybe one way to increase awareness and discourage indiscriminate littering at races is by placing marshalls at waterpoints to catch runners that litter beyond the designated trash areas. Those who are caught will be disqualified from the race right away. If only race organizers have the guts to implement such punishment....

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9 hours ago, kohpapa said:

First 2 sundown marathon in 2008 and 2009... 

YimAsK7.jpg

 

bgz32q.jpg

before from tanah merah canel, just cross road take 8.5 km along the "existing changi coast road"...now take a longer route 12.5 km...Tanah Merah Coast Road with 4 PCN shelters..no toilet facilities...

yes, uncle continues this route from marina barrage....changi point for fun run...with the tanah merah coast road as the greatest challenge...hydration, no toilet break, and if heavy monsoon rain good luck...thunder alert...good luck...

tenah merah coast road is a favourite for bikers...an extended side road...and if any runner seen at tenah merah coast road....they are true ultra runners...preserved and determined....try loop this one...this is a 25km route...

Hello kohpapa. Thanks for sharing the old Sundown Marathon route map. It was my first FM back in 2009, brings back a lot of 'painful' memories hahaha.

I've yet to check out the new Tanah Merah Coast Road as i've not ran at ECP for a long time. Maybe it's time to check it out soon.

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14 hours ago, Lady Ice said:

@beast it's a good event that can be better as highlighted by @yaoxing.  Though I will suggest to make sure it is cupless next time and there are no foods that offer packaging to runners.

Anyhow for a bit of a trash read here is my write up: https://tyrelady.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/68-or-69-2xu-sg-ultra-marathon-trash-runners/

Might not be quite what you are expecting :D

good write up Ice... it's not trash read definitely....

11 minutes ago, jerrylam said:

Good write up, highlighting the ugly side of many runners and races here in Singapore. Maybe one way to increase awareness and discourage indiscriminate littering at races is by placing marshalls at waterpoints to catch runners that litter beyond the designated trash areas. Those who are caught will be disqualified from the race right away. If only race organizers have the guts to implement such punishment....

its not easy... sometimes I do take my time to swallow the drink and eventually when I finished the cup of hydration, I realize that I had past the last designated trash areas ... then i have to hold the empty cup all the way for the next 3km before i see another... it's not easy to do that and many just have the intention to throw it by the side...

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6 minutes ago, jerrylam said:

Hello kohpapa. Thanks for sharing the old Sundown Marathon route map. It was my first FM back in 2009, brings back a lot of 'painful' memories hahaha.

I've yet to check out the new Tanah Merah Coast Road as i've not ran at ECP for a long time. Maybe it's time to check it out soon.

just to clarify to all here that this route only happens in 2008 and 2009.. after that it's changed to a less logistic nightmare area (imagine the road crossings where cars have to stop for runners with no road closure...

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12 minutes ago, AutumnRunner said:

just to clarify to all here that this route only happens in 2008 and 2009.. after that it's changed to a less logistic nightmare area (imagine the road crossings where cars have to stop for runners with no road closure...

Changi Exhibition Centre after that was not a less logistic nightmare area.... it was worse in some aspects coz of the jams into the centre from the narrow roads...

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3 hours ago, beast said:

Changi Exhibition Centre after that was not a less logistic nightmare area.... it was worse in some aspects coz of the jams into the centre from the narrow roads...

that's true... I remember I was late for the start when one of the race as organized there... but it isn't Sundown... it's Real Run... The year when there was massive jam coming into the race precinct and many started 1hr after the race started... I remember the scene when I was running along the road leading into the race precinct for a year and I can see the sianz faces of those runners stucked in the shuttle bus service.

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1 hour ago, Lady Ice said:

Thanks @jerrylam & @AutumnRunner - be good to see more events that highlight litter and make runners become more responsible.

sure... I would take more notice on your blogs and also on myself to ensure I dun anyhow throw as well.

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2 hours ago, AutumnRunner said:

sure... I would take more notice on your blogs and also on myself to ensure I dun anyhow throw as well.

Thanks @AutumnRunner That would be fantastic. Do feel free to share my poster with others :drinks:

SuckyRunnerPoster.JPG

Edited by Lady Ice

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Going a bit off topic on all these trash talk but this is not the first time we have a discussion on this.

I think it was on one of the 2XU Compression Run when the MC (dun know jokingly or not) mentioned about not littering and how NEA officers were standing by to issue summon.

Personally, I never understand why it is so difficult to throw away the cups in the litter bins (or the designated litter spots). Even if you missed the litter spots, is it so difficult to crush the cup and hold it in your hands until you come across the next litter bins? Unfortunately, I think most people think that they are entitled to litter because their (ever increasing) registration fee includes having people to clean up after them.

This is so when they can nonchalantly drop their cup a few meters from the designated bins!  I mean WTF! You can carry that tiny cup for a few meter more? 

 

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2 hours ago, lonewolf said:

Going a bit off topic on all these trash talk but this is not the first time we have a discussion on this.

I think it was on one of the 2XU Compression Run when the MC (dun know jokingly or not) mentioned about not littering and how NEA officers were standing by to issue summon.

Personally, I never understand why it is so difficult to throw away the cups in the litter bins (or the designated litter spots). Even if you missed the litter spots, is it so difficult to crush the cup and hold it in your hands until you come across the next litter bins? Unfortunately, I think most people think that they are entitled to litter because their (ever increasing) registration fee includes having people to clean up after them.

This is so when they can nonchalantly drop their cup a few meters from the designated bins!  I mean WTF! You can carry that tiny cup for a few meter more? 

 

Well we collected 2 bags of trash from the 2XU ultra.....so kind of on topic....am asking the organisers to consider DQing participants if caught dropping litter. In the UK some of the parks will ban events from happening if the park has trash left over from the events. Perhaps the NEA should be involved here so that organisers right down to participants are made responsible.

There was more runners' trash when I cycled along the route later in the morning (between 6:30-7:30am) - might have been from 100km runners or might have been from the few 50km participants that were behind me.

Also after an event had done their litter clean up, I picked up loads of gel tabs and a couple of gel packets over a 50 metre stretch that they was supposed to have cleaned (image below). It's like having to be a passive smoker. We have to put up with some irresponsible tossers. So whilst I have life, I will fight to have runners challenge themselves to be responsible. It's not just about the egotistical PB.

Would all who do not like this behaviour put a poster on your profile or within FB to indicate dropping litter in any event is unacceptable to make your running group more aware?

LitterAfterAlitterSweep - Copy.JPG

SuckyRunnerPoster.JPG

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8 hours ago, lonewolf said:

Going a bit off topic on all these trash talk but this is not the first time we have a discussion on this.

I think it was on one of the 2XU Compression Run when the MC (dun know jokingly or not) mentioned about not littering and how NEA officers were standing by to issue summon.

Personally, I never understand why it is so difficult to throw away the cups in the litter bins (or the designated litter spots). Even if you missed the litter spots, is it so difficult to crush the cup and hold it in your hands until you come across the next litter bins? Unfortunately, I think most people think that they are entitled to litter because their (ever increasing) registration fee includes having people to clean up after them.

This is so when they can nonchalantly drop their cup a few meters from the designated bins!  I mean WTF! You can carry that tiny cup for a few meter more? 

 

Personally, I never understand why it is so difficult to throw away the cups in the litter bins (or the designated litter spots). Even if you missed the litter spots, is it so difficult to crush the cup and hold it in your hands until you come across the next litter bins? Unfortunately, I think most people think that they are entitled to litter because their (ever increasing) registration fee includes having people to clean up after them.

 

so if anyone notice a guy walking like almost dead or strolling to admire the scenery and carrying a disposable cup to the next bin or water point, that probably me cos I have not seen anyone else do that yet. People generally anyhow throw the cups (prob cos they think the race fee cover the cost of cleaners)

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:36 PM, lonewolf said:

I think it was on one of the 2XU Compression Run when the MC (dun know jokingly or not) mentioned about not littering and how NEA officers were standing by to issue summon.

I think it's during one of the Run350 2015 or 2016... cause this race promotes recycling and everyone is encouraged to bring their own bottles... 

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On 10/13/2017 at 4:41 AM, kcslchin said:

 

so if anyone notice a guy walking like almost dead or strolling to admire the scenery and carrying a disposable cup to the next bin or water point, that probably me cos I have not seen anyone else do that yet. People generally anyhow throw the cups (prob cos they think the race fee cover the cost of cleaners)

ok, i look out for you in the next race... hahahh

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Singapore, February 7, 2011 — The organisers of the Sundown Marathon confirmed the routes for the 100km ultramarathon today.

The 100km city race will take runners from the start point at Marina Bay down to Kallang before hitting East Coast Park. Runners will then make their way along Changi Coast Road before reaching Pasir Ris Park. The final leg of the race will see runners make a U-turn at Bedok Reservoir Park before heading back to Marina Bay.

Since registration opened last November, more than 720 runners have already signed up for the Sundown Ultra Marathon, which is expected to attract about 1,000 participants. All runners of this elite distance will have to carry a hydration pack and complete the distance within the 16-hour cut-off mark. There will be hydration top-up stations every 10km and food supply stations after the 40km mark.

Meaning... all hydration refills and miscellaneous items are top-up and store at your hydration pack, and continue your journey...just like  North Face 100® ....all food eaten with litters and rubbish are disposed at "10km pit stop".

Perhaps, most ultra runners are ave learned to endure with further distance running with more structured training in endurance running strategy with just enough hydration and proper nutrition management such as gel or even bananas and nuts...and with hydration bag as carrier...to be executed at every milestone of the running journey...

Yes, this race is ultramarathon, not 10km, 21km where expectation of every 2km must be placed with cups of water...every 4km with cups of isotonic mixed hydration...every 16-18kmkm must have banana...every 8-12km must have energy gel....

This ultramaration race is about what and how you have trained and managed in your nutrition and hydration needs with planning and strategy, and how then you manage them in your hydration packs....management and control of personal littering and disposal as well...till your next CP...could be 10km away like in 2011 Ultra or 12.5km in 2013 Ultra (ECP Water Venture and Changi Beach Ferry Terminal Beside).....manage them...with your hydration packs or carriers...

Of course, cannot say much on those who don't use any of the carriers at all...maybe simply....just throw...since nobody watches...and someone will clean and "pick up" for proper disposal.

Happy to know all here had wonderful runs in 2017...

Edited by kohpapa

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    • This is one of those instances where I think Pink Apple is doing a bad job in terms of planning. Of course, we understand that there's restriction in terms of road closure etc which may be why it's necessary to have the diversion point in the first place. Still, regardless of the reasons, the onus is on Pink Apple to come up with a 'diverted' route that does not prejudice the slower runners. The diverted route should not be shorter and hence disqualified the runners who do not reach the diversion point by the cut off time. Slower runners should not be disqualified at the organisational convenience of Pink Apple. Of course, there will be some who may argue that those who cannot complete an HM in 2h 45m has no business attempting the 32K but the point is moot. If the intended pace is indeed meant to be sub 7.8 min/k then the cut off time should have been adjusted accordingly and highlighted so that potential participants can make an informed choice.  We also need to remember that the 2h45m cut off applies for those who start in the first wave (typically the faster runner who will have no problem meeting the cut off). For the slower runners that start in the subsequent waves, they will have lesser time to reach the diversion point by 0745 hrs. Also, for those who are diverted and run a shorter course, I dun think they will be very happy to be shortchanged or to wear a polo finisher proclaiming them to be '32.195 km Finisher' when they did not run that distance. The difference must be significant enough for the diverted runners to be excluded from ranking.  Ultimately the biggest mystery is the absence of such an arrangement last yr. 
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      However, if you miss the category cut off time of 6 hours to complete the entire race, you may not receive your Medal and Finisher polo. Hope this clarifies
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