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s35824

overhydrate or dehydrate

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need advice. How do i know if i am over-hydrate or dehydrate.  I did some reading, both share same symptoms.  every year i run the marathon, i will definitely feel nausea at 34km.  i tried breathing hard hoping i will burp to ease the nausea feeling, but didn't work much.

Anyone can advice me?  thanks in advance.

Btw, for training, my longest run is also around that distance.

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It is very common for blood pressure to decrease during long runs. This has been documented in several studies; this is usually asymptomatic.

Dehydration also causes a drop in blood pressure; you did not consume much fluid during the race. A breeze will cause perspiration to evaporate more quickly, so you may not have been aware of the degree of fluid loss.

Hypoglycemia -- low blood sugar -- is another cause of dizziness. You may only consumed about 100 calories during the race.

Cardiac problem; an abnormal heart rhythm or compromised blood flow may cause the symptoms that you experienced. Dizziness or passing out during exertion is likely be a cardiac problem until proven otherwise.

You should see your physician regarding this issue. Runners are not immune to heart disease.

Play it safe, let your body tells you, "I need to stop run, will you stop and just simply walk the rest of the distance!".

However, in our runners' practice...we overcome this with the supplement of energy gel...such as before reaching that 34km really run of critical energy to "overcome" that great wall of china - that last burst of energy - proper consumption of the gel mixed with plenty of water produce essential electrolytes....plus some preferred to have "relatively" high caffeine..so that with a "burst" of sugar spike plus that short span of alertness..runner can feel "high"...this is not drug..but just "natural resource processed" food prepared for ultra-distance activity..such as marathon..ultra run..or multisports of extreme aerobic in nature...

But, if you don't desire to be professional marathoner, then it is unwise to practice gel-as-energy...of course alternative will be good old banana, muffins....of course, if your stomach can take it...oriental "minced meat porridge" or minced meat burger also can do...as long as you can eat after 30km...you just need to recoup your lost energy...that's all.

Of course, cramps mean you have lost valuable electrolytes..which only artificial food supplement such as energy gel can supplement...because naturally produced mineral electrolytes will take organic longer. So you may want to look at your carbo loading program before that next marathon...

Good luck...here I am know as simply "uncle"...

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Wah... uncle reply in very detailed...

Dehydrate means drinking not adequately for the body to absorb to gain the benefit.... over-hydrate means drinking more than required and the excess will either stay in bladder or perspire out...

I realised that in our local weather, runners tend to drink more cause would feel more thirsty but the amount we drink to quench our thirst might not equal to how much our body needs.. so there might be excess water left in the body which further dilutes the salt content in the body and this can cause a low amount of sodium level in the body and cramps or hyponatremia (serious) might occur...

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thanks kohpapa and AutumnRunner for the info.  ya, i think different people sweat at different rate.  there are reports that says, 'drink when thirsty' and there are recommendation 'drink even u are not' ...... may i know your personal experiences, in Singapore weather, which do u practice?  

Btw, i can go without water for 21km and got no cramp and nausea and not feeling thirsty (running @6:30min/km). should i try go even further without water until i get thirsty?  

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uncle also can go without water for 21km and got no cramp and nausea and not feeling thirsty...abuthen...singapore hot and humid weather is always challenging for even professional marathoners..like confessed winner for 2016 Men's..."sibei hot, nearly cannot run towards the finishing..."

humid is "heat" trapped and even sweat cannot evaporates in the high humidity condition...and so..we feel "song and shiok" but failing to know we are actually "dehydrating" via sweat...because sweat "trap" and so..we feel "not thirsty"..

nope.. "should i try go even further without water until i get thirsty?"...you feel..but the body is "appealing" organically..your electrolytes of important calcium and especially magnetism - important for muscle - is crying out...and that also means heart muscle...

and why lately hear of "sudden" death or even ex-champions collapse before finishing point...once when the muscles pulled from the legs...and heavy breathing and pounding of heart requires higher pumping of these important muscles..and electrolytes to transfer the energy to the right places...especially the heart...imagine suddenly stops due to "pressure"...not enough hydration cause "low blood" symptom..and yes...sensation of "blank out" confessed by those pro athletes, "why I collapse at reaching finishing point"...cannot explained...

listen to your body...eat according to a strict diet meant for endurance activities...proper carbo loading..and yes..sometimes it is good to give your body a break...unless..you are a camel..with backup water supply...wonder how camel actually "drinks"..straw stick to it's hump..

camel.jpg

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For a marathon race, I would definitely take at least a sip of water at hydration points no matter how I feel. I am still trying to learn how to control myself not drinking too much at times in our weather..

For shorter races, sometimes I would miss 1 hydrating pt ( meaning about 5km to 6km without hydration). 

There would bound to be water loss from body all the running and taking half a cup of water at every 2.5km to 3km sounds acceptable actually.

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seems like i need to plan for electrolytes intake for long runs....ya and more long runs i will need to know how much i need to take..thanks kohpapa and AutumnRunner for your sharing. 

Edited by s35824

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you are welcome...and soon you shall join us as ultra runners...tips and sharing is always here for all...

just to add for those to venture to ultra..you need to know your wall of china...minimum distance..some could be mere 12km...or 18km..or 22km...or 30km... and so taking part in Newton 30km run is always to see...when are where you should replenish that hydration with energy gel which uncle will not endorse if it is inorganic and excessive caffeine..

uncle would prefer "real" food...consumed in bits in pieces..even a bowl of chicken stew or sliced meat buns are also ok...

importantly listen to your body for pain or thirst or hunger...run with less injury and pain..the greatest ally is yourself...just obey the body..

Edited by kohpapa
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14 minutes ago, s35824 said:

seems like i need to plan for electrolytes intake for long runs....ya and more long runs i will need to know how much i need to take..thanks kohpapa and AutumnRunner for your sharing. 

yes, LSD runs on its own are a good test of your body ... so always take this chance to test out your hydration plan...

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19 minutes ago, kohpapa said:

you are welcome...and soon you shall join us as ultra runners...tips and sharing is always here for all...

just to add for those to venture to ultra..you need to know your wall of china...minimum distance..some could be mere 12km...or 18km..or 22km...or 30km... and so taking part in Newton 30km run is always to see...when are where you should replenish that hydration with energy gel which uncle will not endorse if it is inorganic and excessive caffeine..

uncle would prefer "real" food...consumed in bits in pieces..even a bowl of chicken stew or sliced meat buns are also ok...

important listen to your body for pain of thirst and hunger...run with less injury and pain..the greatest ally is yourself...just obey the body..

Yes, 101% agree, obey your body, so u enjoy more runs.  know ur body and push the limit gradually, be prepared and u will know u are ready  ^_^   once u r ready, u will know u are stronger after each race.

 

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just to add another tip...uncle runs "minimalist"...so that also contributed to uncle...enjoying a recovery run of almost 10km yesterday evening after sunday...

the faster you can recover...u know u are stronger after each race...

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2 hours ago, kohpapa said:

just to add another tip...uncle runs "minimalist"...so that also contributed to uncle...enjoying a recovery run of almost 10km yesterday evening after sunday...

the faster you can recover...u know u are stronger after each race...

wow..uncle..same same, i wear mininalist (cannot sell brand here ^_^) for short runs (<5km), so can 'rotate use' of different musle group.  i recommend this to friends, so u don't over stress the same sets of muscles....now we taking of Qi running and forward running? do we have topic on this?

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Good to see kohpapa back in action and you are missed for your witty and humourous insights here =)

Sidetrack here, I am also a so-called "minimalist footwear" which I no longer use thick heavy running shoes for exercise. Agree with kohpapa, got or no shoe, we can still run.

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omg..my favourite moo friend from the other forum...how do you drool...:o

yes...this topic is about hydration and nutrition...nothing about minimalist running...otherwise...easily 100 posts here...

nutrition.jpg

Edited by kohpapa
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4 hours ago, kohpapa said:

omg..my favourite moo friend from the other forum...how do you drool...:o

yes...this topic is about hydration and nutrition...nothing about minimalist running...otherwise...easily 100 posts here...

nutrition.jpg

Uncle, u can start one topic on this since there are  some many runners here who going into this.

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9 hours ago, AutumnRunner said:

Uncle, u can start one topic on this since there are  some many runners here who going into this.

i can start one :)  (want to score pts...LOL)......  like to see how many has started changing the way they run and whether there is any benefits to transit from heel to "forward running" 

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38 minutes ago, s35824 said:

i can start one :)  (want to score pts...LOL)......  like to see how many has started changing the way they run and whether there is any benefits to transit from heel to "forward running" 

Sure... I tried actually but failed.miserably...haa..

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10 hours ago, AutumnRunner said:

Uncle, u can start one topic on this since there are  some many runners here who going into this.

one of reasons...uncle tio banned was that...uncle was not a qualified sports science pro...don't talk about sports nutrition..and perhaps...uncle "talked too much pro chats"...generated lots of "hates" from pros here...and so...kena "read"  but cannot "write"..and left this forum for more than 2 years...

yes..ever since...uncle contributed..this one...Nutrition, Hydration and Metabolism for Runs [July 4, 2014]..wah almost 2.5 years after uncle tio banned..

1. Nutrition

1.1 Nutrition Label, Eating For Your Sport, Gel, Nutrition in Marathon (Pre-, During and Post-Recovery) Discussion

1.2 "Bonk" and "Hitting the Wall", UltraRun!..Beyond 6-hour..10-hour..12-hour...

1.3 How to practice your long run nutrition to find your sweet spot...

1.4 Protein Intake And Performance For Runners, A review of the latest guidelines for exercise and sport nutrition from the American College of Sport Nutrition(ACSM), the International Olympic Committee(IOC) and the International Society for Sports Nutrition(ISSN), General nutritional needs for physical activity, Calorie counts for Singapore's favourite food items

1.5 Carbo-Load With Hawker Food...Singapore-style, Counting calories at Christmas

1.6 The Healthy Runner's Diet...The Ultimate Guide to Workout Nutrition


2. Hydration

2.1 how much is in a Drink?...the right mix of liquid and carbs will help fuel every run...

2.2 100PLUS is specially formulated to hydrate better than water...Pocari Sweat...Developed by Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. Japan...The Very Best Beverages for Runners...


3. Metabolism

3.1 Know Your Metabolism, How does Cellular Respiration Work During Runs, What is that lactic acid? Aerobic Respiration, Anaerobic Respiration, Metabolism and Calories, Acid-Alkaline Balance For Good Health,Decrease in pH of Blood Caused by Run, Cortisol Effects

3.2 What You Need to Know About Sugar...Myths...Metabolically


4.Special Topics

4.1 Training Strategies with Nutrition and Hydration, Can you drink too much milk? Proteins...Resistance Exercise and Endurance Exercise, How much calcium do you need?

4.2 The Sugary Truth, Running Marathon

4.3 Fat and then Carbs! Latest in Pre-Race Nutrition for Marathons...and Ultras, Review...Nutrition, Hydration and Metabolism for Runs, More tips to reduce sugar intake from drinks

4.4 Stick to The Hydration and Nutrition Plan for Runs that Works!

4.5 Wah how come today like cannot see any gel or BANANA...Counting Down To Chinese New Year: Keep your figure trim and toned throughout the festive season...Looking forward for Race but sadly its during the fasting month!!Train Your Body To Fuel Efficiently With Fasting...Fast Food: What Should You Eat Before, During and After Run...

4.6 Five Fruits Before and After a Run...12 Vegetarain proteins to add to your meals...


5. Diets for Endurance Runs

5.1 What is a Healthy Diet? A Low-Carb Alternative, Ketogenic Diets

5.2 Nutrition, Hydration, Metabolism and Biomechanics: The Kenyans, Ultramarathon Running: How A Vegan Diet Helped Me Run 100 Miles,Basic Guidelines for Physically Active People on a (Newly) Vegan Diet

5.3 Primal Blueprint, Running a Marathon on a Paleo Diet, Difference between the Paleo Diet and the Low Carb High Fat (LCHF) Diet or Ketogenic Diet

5.4 Ten Primal Superfoods to Help You Perform 10 Times Better...


6. Marathon for Healthy Living

6.1 Adrenaline and Cortisol Rush....Insulin, Moderation in "Carbo Loading"...Energy Gel, A Recovery Program...Proper Diet and Exercise Program that is Anabolic, Post-Marathon Recovery, Moderation of Sugar in Fruit Juice and Drinks

6.2 Moderation in Fructose,10 Biggest Sports Nutrition Myths, Primal Blueprint, Paleo Diet, Overtraining...Injury Strikes, Calcium - A guide for the endurance athlete, Difference between the Paleo Diet and the Low Carb High Fat (LCHF) Diet or Ketogenic Diet

6.3 How Healthy are Singapore's Favourite Foods? We Love Our Favourite Hawker Food in Singapore...After Runs? Keep Trim and Toned Pre- and Post- Chinese New Year, Looking forward for Race but sadly its during the fasting month!!

6.4 Seventeen Surprising Mid-Run Snacks to Improve Your Marathon...

and guess what...it was one of the top 3 most favourite topics regular visits..at the other forum...don't know if u want this one...skeli uncle again tao banned..."hates" from sports science, medicine, coaches, pros...uncle scared scared...need consensus first...must have "likes" to support...

Edited by kohpapa
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18 hours ago, trailblazer said:

Good to see kohpapa back in action and you are missed for your witty and humourous insights here =)

Sidetrack here, I am also a so-called "minimalist footwear" which I no longer use thick heavy running shoes for exercise. Agree with kohpapa, got or no shoe, we can still run.

 

2 hours ago, s35824 said:

i can start one :)  (want to score pts...LOL)......  like to see how many has started changing the way they run and whether there is any benefits to transit from heel to "forward running" 

 

Aiya...let uncle explain lah...when we run lak kids free...we don't know how to say how we actually learn how to run...

run1.jpg

run2.jpg

heel strike...explained...

run3.jpg

even kids can watch cartoon...no need to know to much about running...fast..faster...

run4.jpg

the fastest one run with circular motion...relaxed for muscles...fast fast...otherwise...

run5.jpg

must learn to talk pro...what is cadence...something to do with running speed...

run6.jpg

10km world elite...vs world's oldest marathoner....lua uncle is more "forward running"...meaning more aerobic one...

run7.jpg

of course, many suka anyhow run..with no posture one...waste energy...might as well just zzZZZ

run8.jpg

show pattern of run...short run...more on toe...middle distance..more on heel..chest out, hips forward...heel "naturally" adjust lah...bui bui...skinny skinny..why nobody teaches you to run after you learn to walk right?

run9.jpg

of course...chong ah...when kena chased by wild dogs...or....many money in front dropped in front...first one take them all...

run10.jpg

must show class even if want to run fast fast...but don't any how chong for pride and arrogance...like half marathon or marathon..collapse..is chong with "low blood" and brain no enough oxygen...or sudden death..not enough "energy" to activate heart muscle (didn't know heart muscle got "thinned" over the years naturally or deliberately due to excessive training)...got check with doctor before anyhow chong...

run11.jpg

summary...

run12.jpg

what is minimalist running...it's all about the shoes..or "shoe"less..

run13.jpg

uncle uses "barefoot running" style...some say chi...uncle uses sandals..market sell one..also can..some say five-finger...uncle use them also...no shoe..can...but...too much construction lately...munfun...dogs like to lick uncle's toes...smells like doggie bag to them...

run 14.jpg

uncle got tips...abutthen..b4 kena banned for speaking non-pro sports language here...better run road now...bye bye

Edited by kohpapa
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3 hours ago, AutumnRunner said:

these are good infor... not easy to keep to the same posture.. need good core training for core muscles too...

ya....u won't know if u running correctly.....uncle so technical.....got video show show or not.....sometime i wish i can carry full length mirror to run so i can see if my hip is at the 'right' position...LOL

 

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Got lah video...It's not how fast your run -- It's how you run fast. Imagine if there was a way for you to run faster without working harder, to run farther without being fitter. There is a way. Technique.

every runner must learn..technical or wat..sports science...what is running forward movement..

hope uncle makes "technical" less technical...so everyone here...can understand better...no barrier in language...speak singlish...laugh at own self...also kan...

Edited by kohpapa

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2 hours ago, kohpapa said:

Got lah video...It's not how fast your run -- It's how you run fast. Imagine if there was a way for you to run faster without working harder, to run farther without being fitter. There is a way. Technique.

every runner must learn..technical or wat..sports science...what is running forward movement..

hope uncle makes "technical" less technical...so everyone here...can understand better...no barrier in language...speak singlish...laugh at own self...also kan...

kohpapa is correct. Majority of the runners are astonishingly averse to improving running technique (this includes elite runners as well) and the proper sequence to improving running is actually technique --> base/volume --> speed.

I will talk more about this in the Chi running vs forward running thread as this is on hydration topic. Before I forget, there is a book written by the running expert Dr Tim Noakes (author of Lore of Running) which talks about overhydration. Book title is "waterlogged" which examines the science of hydration and how to prevent fatalities from it. Book details at http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-products/waterlogged

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