kohpapa

Hello everyone, wishing everyone well here. Notice all have planned and prepared for the maiden evening SCSM 2019. Some shall be taking their first maiden FM also. Firstly, uncle shall skip this maiden evening run citing that the condition for this year run especially in terms of logistics (road closures in the evening), as well as it is just like another Sundown event. Secondly, 2019 is unusually hot and humid, and from experience, whether you choose to run day Marathon or even night Marathon, there will be no difference in the outcome - you will have to face the sweaty, and energy-sapping running because of hot and humid condition. DNF is likely to be mental and psychological barriers that you must overcome - never give up because of the condition. Thirdly, compared to running in the day time (which the condition of heat stroke - simply because there is sun in the day time), then what will be likely situation in the evening - cramps. Night time running is running against having proper dinner and if those aspire to meet the more than 6 hours of endured running, energy depletion in the night is higher because you are supposed to have proper sleep in specific hours, even that means you must sleep at midnight. Everyone is used to Day time activities, unless some are used to work in night shifts, then running in the night should be more comfortable than those who have not adapted to "body" works at night. Surely, uncle would expect preparation for mileage run to increase in the evening hours, and all the SOP of endurance and aerobic (speed work or HIIT) programs. Uncle has many times taken part in Sundown Ultra Runs, and had endured training program say 100km per week starting from 6pm ending well just before midnight or just after. What were the experiences? I would share to you, totally challenging. Your body only sleeps from 3am, and you will have to wake up at 10am, and then prepare the body mentally again for 6pm to midnight and after. Sounded uncle is running "night shift" right. Indeed, that is the training program for all Sundown aka SCSM (2019 and beyond). Pain and cramps suffered with the evening runs are expected, because most of us are Day Shift workers (including bosses) who need to report to work in the morning. We do not have sufficient time to recover from the evening (progressive distance) as what we say, add more mileage as we progress to actual 42km for FM. Let uncle add that "Rest and recovery. Adequate rest helps prevent injuries and mental burnout.". Actually for those who working in the day time, you need to have even More Adequate rest. So, what would uncle suggest. "running three-to-five times per week" must be staggered to lesser, to have adequate time to recover from injury (pain is a sign that inadequate time for recovery from lengthy evening runs). Shortened runs, yes why 10km, when 8 km is comfortable for your current day life style. Pacing, yes, why quicken when you are already injured. Evening runs are running against breathing more oxygen like fresh morning day, instead, breathing with less oxygen in the evening is like as though you are running in high attitude condition (less oxygen)? My suggestion to all, run what is comfortable pace, and yes, wait till the SCSM (2019) maiden evening run - uncle already told you, it is not a day run after all, then why are all following a SOP for day run? Hope this is not a bible for run for evening, because the environment is different, you are running with lesser oxygen. If you want to run like day time with SOP, then run with oxygen tank for evening run, and you will be glad why you should run day marathon like what is supposed to be, marathon should start in early hours, because oxygen is abundant at that hours. I wish you well. Take uncle's piece of BS experience of Sundown experiences as BS compare to Day Marathon. How many of you actually run evening qualifying marathons overseas? Because it is never a standard day qualifying marathon race. Only in SG, we have evening Marathons - Sundown and now SCSM (2019). Is there a day Marathon, then go overseas. lol.

"combine starting line for HM and FM" ideal location in the past: - Esplanade bridge (Army HM Run ) - Merdeka bridge (nicoll highway) (Sundown HM and FM) Those slow and steady, "Go Left!". However, in other parts of the world, the convention is "Go Right!". So give the correct Running Rule "Walk/Slow, Please Keep Left" "how many foreigners make up the race?" - It has been a promotional event for Tourists as Runners to participate in Standard Chartered Singapore Marathon Run as Sightseeing Adventure. Finishing may not be important considering in such a hot and humid temperature, even in the evenings, and considering the time of the night, expect more sure just drop off and leave the route. "another pool of newbies will come in and take over, this cycle will keep repeating, unhappy people goes off, new people comes in, then gets boring, then another pool comes in." Now you understand why uncle was once newbies, old birds, and now enjoy seeing the cycle repeating, and still here sharing and contributing? Yes, for those who never run Sundown Marathon(Night Race), great to have the experience. For those who never run in First Marathon, why not start with a uniquely Night Race. Isn't that become a cycle of those of us here who once started Sundown (First Night Marathon). Run Day or Night, Day and Night, Night and Day, why not just simply the fun of it, experience the best options. Lastly, best wishes, First SCSM 2019 (Marathon Night).

wah, uncle is back, and after reading some of your comments and what is the motivation to take part in this scsm... Interesting read in late 2017, "Will Singapore Marathon Become Singapore Night Marathon Next Year?"...the article was before Sundown 2018 and SCSM 2018...Next Year seems then was the speculation that SCSM 2018 may be a night event, abutthen, it was not... http://runso.co/2Bv0DtC no, uncle shall not take part in this scms 2019, based on the reasons given as "The Disadvantages of SCSM Becoming a Night Marathon" Agree with most of the issues by @AutumnRunner as an Ultra Runner Never like Compressports, prefer UA, Quality. IAAF Marathon Runs are all Day Events, and uniquely Singapore is Night. Singapore climate is hot and humid, and that is the challenge to all, and so to adapt seemlessly will be those who living in the SEA and tropical countries in Aftca and South America who share same "equatorial" environment, and to run in Evening, lasting till say 9-10pm, requires adjustment to Running time routines...which uncle shall share from experiences. Once uncle in preparation for Sundown Ultra, need to get use to night run. Route and Time : 6pm Marina Barrage - 9pm-10pm Changi Village via say Tenah Merah Coast had been my LSD if I would to train for any night marathon...catch last bus #2 at changi village before 1115pm, or get transport to Pasir Ris mrt and catch last train at 1145pm....only after 2-3am, then my body is warm-down able to sleep. Of course, if you drive, then better train laps at ECP, like Newton 32KM...nah not my preference anyway, which shall become daily evening runs for most running clubs anyway. Nope, uncle skip this one, and even if how bad is Sundown 2019, if this is the only night race, let Sundown organiser shows improvement after uncle's feedback. Sincerely, Sundown 2020 must improve, because it shall be also another Night Marathon. Now, you have both night Marathon races, what so uniquely if Sundown would become Day Marathon say SunUp, then uncle will signup because SunUp, is Day Event and is considered as Internationally Standard, uniquely not in Singapore. If SunUp can also apply for IAAF say start from Bronze Medal Road Race, then we expect to see how and who organiser will take the challenge and become one. Ironman Asia (NIght Marathon) vs SunUp (Day Marathon) says our local challenger Hivelocity (once was Ironman Singapore 70.3 Organiser and once Sundown). Now, we will be motivated, because last year the Ironman Cow Medal from SCSM 2019 has shown spots believe to be rust...Quality. Another reason why uncle not considering SCSM, unless given free bib.

Uncle shall end this forum thread on the Technical Issues (some are also Human issues) on "We Remembered Sundown 2019": 1. Qualifying Time is never having using "Cut-off" Time to comply to TP Road Closure rules of re-opening of Traffic after the time (7am). If there is the need to extend beyond 7am, organiser must write-in on application (weeks ago) to explain. Permission or not for extension beyond 7am, only nearing to the event, approval or rejection, it is always "pending". From previous "cut-off" time, only and always the last wave or final details for participants are affected because to be ready for 7am road opening (for example), "cut-off" time can be as early as 5:30am, 6am or even 6:30am. So, if you were to be "cut off" even at 25km or 35km checkpoints, it is known that, hydration stations further on are "closed". You would have been told you did not meet Qualifying Time. DNF is rightfully and fairly served to you. The start time (delayed) will never be considered, because the TP Rules must be complied. If local race always have this Qualification Time with the condition of "Cut-off" time, this is a never Fair to a paid Runner who is always possible able to Qualify for 8 hours or even 7.5 hours for SCSM. 2. If there are more hydration points, then more manpower, more logistics to clear away, and consequenly, hydration stations must be closed earlier, all for the sake of "cut-off" time as explained with relations to item 1. 3. Budget means sufficient hydration stations must be always staked up (whether Water, Electrolytes, Energy Gel and Bananas) and also, the distribution point must be long enough to cater to the needs many (tens/hundreds/thousands) to avoid congestion. This Sundown 2019, there are not enough hydration points to begin with. What is supposed to be there is never there at all. Is this a low budget race? If it is, show all and be transparent of what you ordered and what you claim that you tried to replenish instead of apologizing to the public. Uncle wants to know where are the bananas that were to be rightfully ordered? Unless the monkeys ate them before arrival. 4. Park Connectors are part of the route. Narrow tracks of Park Connectors for a mega sized event of 10,000 must also be considered. Many times, capturing of Runners pictures by public in races, running out of the tracks, or even run along the roads against the traffic, because the tracks are too narrowed for running. Once, in a major run event, to have hundreds of runners "captured" waiting for steps going to the park connector along Nicoll Highway, that is a classic example "why a race route became a narrow staircase" as evidenced at the Kallang Park to Kallang Road. Same the path along the Bridge along Kallang Road. 5. Embarrassing moments, not enough PortaLoos available, and in this Sundown 2019, if there are no public toilets available along ECP or at Gardens By The Bay East, many dark human shadows would been seen "relieving" themselves in scanty bushes, and what if the need to "shit"? The night provides natural modesty and privacy cover. DIY portaloo style, 101 ways, we don't deserve to have them. 6. Hot and Humidity condition is always there in local races. What else will the weather help to all run faster? Cooler with Breeze and wind, and how to lower humidity the fastest, only heavy rainstorm (often come with thunders). Sundown is always scheduled during inter-monsoonal season...very Hot and Humid, very wet and thunderstorm. 2019 is very Hot and Humid with occasional showers. What is your backup plan in case there is Wet and Thunderstorm Weather? 7. Technology is a must, a "live" apps for the race. Where is the next hydration point? Where is the U-turn? Yes, budget for IT: Smart Race for Smart Runners. This "live" apps must also take weather into consideration. Alert when there is a need to. 8. If Registration is based on Qualifying Time for Pen A-B-C, then it will really be "bo chap" - meaning ignored, because after knowing you have read from items 1 and 2, "cut-off" time is only for the Pen C last waves. Also, it is always expected that there would never be assured of sufficient Water, Electrolyte Drinks, Bananas if you are in Pen C last waves. Why bother to register to start from Pen C? Don't be Kumkong (A phase that is coined from KumPong "village" and kong "gong" as in a local dialect meaning "stupid and gullible"). Be smart. We had been already kumkong (#1) paid to drink toilet water and kumkong (#2) paid to be "Cut off" in this kumkong (#3) race with no race apps? Let's be less kumkong again in Sundown 2020. As for Infinitius, please wake up from your kumkong mistakes, you are an embarrassment to the Running Community.

Sundown is an iconic brand (Made-in-Singapore). To have our guests/visitors from overseas who came here to participate (especially for the first time), and having to queue up for hydration at the WC/Latrines/Toilets this is totally very embarrassing. A first world country (best in everything, Sports Hub for every sports) but a third world event organiser such as Infinitus, uncle already said at the beginning of this forum thread, not tested, no track record, a practical nobody to replace Hivelocity. Luckily, there was no major health issue (heat stroke) because this is a Night event. Suffering from insufficient hydration and nutrition in an endurance race is pain and cramp of muscles. Experiences count here to survive this brutal race. we knew when things go wrong (no water, no banana). We reacted because we are local, because we knew the route of the event well. There was no evidence of others who ran in the maze of the FMroute (no map to show them, where are there, how much distance is the next hydration/nutrition point). Of course, complained of crew (road marshalls) went to zZZ (Sleep Can't Wait). We knew, these are student volunteers who just started their school holidays. One shift do all from 7pm - 7am, even if you were a volunteer or crew member, Sleep naturally. Should Infinitus be forgiven and given a chance in Sundown 2020? The difference in a non-Sanctioned race like Sundown, unlike SCSM, is that, nobody really needs to ensure that proper compliance to the rules of safety for the participants of the race. Even if you want to impose Qualifying time, if the logistics planning (from event start, road-closure, route planning - included roads narrowing, park connectors paths narrowing - some authority (such as Running Body or Association) and even as Uncle acted as Official to ensure Sanction Race must comply to the Rules of Competition, Safety First must ensure in the Planning with the Race Director. Profit above everything else. Participants pay to run (many outside the running community laugh at why pay such high price to run, when you can run freely). True, even when uncle runs with a Free entry, it doesn't mean that uncle should be made to DIY on hydration and nutrition needs - the basics of survivals to ensure everyone has a Safe Run. Unless Infinitus choose to maximise profit - yes, pay more for logistics planning next time, then make runners (clients) pay more, or absorb losses to save Face value for First Time Mistake. Again, we are down to the little disagreement in the beginning of this forum thread, does hosting/organising of Marathon Runs really make money (profit) or loss. Again, we go to Sundown 2020 with Infinitus, learning from its maiden Sundown, move on for the next Decade. A Decade ago, Hivelocity also made not so serious hiccups like what Infinitus did this year, because the team were passionate endurance runners and triathletes. They were experienced and had taken part in overseas events (competitions). Because of that, they would want to bring to Singapore, an endurance race that is first time in Asia - A Night Marathon. But, will we forgive and forget what Infinitus does in Sundown 2019. Uncle would suggest - show and evidence to us - your Infinitus Top Guns - who are you and show face, are you as credible as Hivelocity Team, as passionate in Sports of Endurance Events, or just a bunch of administrators. It is just like asking a non-Run event organiser to "feel" - do you know that it is so difficult to run without hydration for almost 5km...why not you run yourself and show us. If you don't have IT (competent to Run the Talk), then don't show Face to disgrace the Running Community in organising one that is the laughing talk in Town, "Only losers (kumkong - an expression means stupid) pay to run, and to drink toilet water". Sundown in Taiwan once was "WanTan" - Egg Broken. Sundown in Home Ground is "WanTan" - Egg Broken once again. Yes, Liverpool won 2-0 UEFA Cup on Sundown 2019. Congratulations. Sundown is soundly beaten in both in Overseas and at Home, 0-2 with such humiliating "We are kumkong runners who pay to drink toilet water."

Good question, and for all to know. Uncle has ever sat with the Organisers as Officials for sanctioned Races like Multievent and Marathons. Uncle remembered too, once when Infinitius held an Ultra Duothlon Event, it was a day event, never ever exceed beyond any midnight race such as Sundown. But, Infinitius may not be familiar with hosting a mega event (size of 10,000 participants and more) that stretches to 8 hours and more. Perhaps, being inexperienced, and never organised endurance events in 21km/42km race or even an Ironman 70.3 (6-8 hours Qualifications) like its predecessor (Hivelocity), uncle can understand why, they are never prepared to host Sundown 2019 for this is their very first time. Infinitius is a newbie event organiser for Sundown. Are they to be forgiven or not, let all decide. But, they had been warned not to start 21km and 42km waves at the same time. But, Road Closure hours 7pm - 7am (mandatory) please refer below info attached in picture (image). And their decision to go ahead. Let all here see what if you were Infinitius, go ahead with both 21km/42km...or start 42km from 1130pm....then 21km from 1am...or...21km and then 42km....anyway, already hydration already ran out for any start waves from both categories...woes of Sundown 2019 is "Water Can Wait" Yes, shuttle buses timing.. Once Sundown was held at Changi Exhibition Hall, almost how to get cabs or even MRT then..nearest was at Pasir Ris. So all early finishers slept on the ground, watch Big Screen Movies. Then, we even had a big mock up Tents for Shower Area for both Guys and Girls. Yes, plenty of Entertainment and Lights at the Sundown Village to keep us "happy", "sleep can be restful", while waiting for the shuttle buses all start arriving from 6am onwards. That was the PR of how then Hivelocity came with the backups - to make sure that all Participants for both 21/42 runners to be Safe and Comfortable. Road Closures was never the issue because Changi Exhibition Hall at end point because all run activities stop at 7am. Not like 1130am - 730am (8 hours) at Sundown 2019. I must admit that Sundown 2019 routes are at major roads of heavy traffic. So, not so easy to go about planning because of TP strict requirements on the placement of barriers (obstacles). See below pictures (images). Yes, proper planning is important, and backups are important because of weather, and especially what if there is a late (delayed) start. Source on Road Closure Permit: https://www.police.gov.sg/e-services/apply/licenses-and-permits/road-closure-permit TP Road Closure Code of Practice (shown as follows) extracted from TP_road_closure_Code_of_Practice_3.pdf Yes, every race organiser, especially the Race Director must always ahere to the TP Road Closure Code of Practice for all Local Races. That includes also SCSM. So, if uncle should say, why there are cut-off time for road closures almost to the end point such as 25km (U-turn from ECP loop), 35km (exit from ECP loop to the Construction Road heading towards the Garden By the Bay (East)...that always is the area of "Cut-off" time, by 7am (leaving an hour ++ for clearing of any setups or obstacles/barriers)...otherwise, TP will xxxx you.

Good question for all to know.. https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6261003-iaaf-releases-2019-world-championships-standards Everyone has accepted only the SCSM has always have the real Qualifying for World Marathon Races, because it has the IAAF Label Race (Gold). Ironman Asia, being distinctively also host IronMan event, also host Qualifying for World's Ironman Events. To apply for any Qualifying Races, host country or cities must organise with compliances to what is deemed as proper Race - from appointment of Officials to Drug Doping test, so that while any runner tries to Qualify, there is no cheating. An example is our Local Female Winner (2018) was found to have taken illegal drug, which caused her to be stripped of Qualifying ranking as Winner. Also, Qualifying races also must also cater for those who are Able to Compete. So, if you notice in every IAAF-sanctioned running events and even Olympics (IAAF sets the Quidelines for what you mean by Qualifying Timing) and Paralympics The advantage is as part of application for any Label Race Categories like Bronze, Silver, Gold and even Platinum, only World-ranked Qualified Runners would for in these Label Races to stay Qualified in Ranking. Any other races not IAAF-sanctioned, Runners can compete for monetary sake, but the timing will not be considered as World Qualifying Timing. However, there are countries which like Singapore, while trying to promote Grassroot/Recreational Running such as Marathon for the messes, will set an entry-level of 8 hours in the past SCSM. As we progress in terms of improved timing for all, we raise the barrier to 7.5 hours in 2018. Of course, if Singapore needs to be in the World-class Marathon, our local elites (and all of us) must meet the likes of Boston - 3 hours and better. Sub-2 is always a wish for all marathoners, especially in the continental representation, runners from Africa seems to be able to meet Sub-2 anytime soon. Wonder anyone here competes in Marathon Race in continental Africa? Yes, there is no fix Qualifying Timing for countries, but, it is up to the Sports Body, like ActiveSG (once they were known as the Singapore Sport Council), they will work out with the Singapore Athletics (once they were known as Singapore Athletics Association aka affliate with IAAF International), and so SCSM's officials are aka ActiveSG with SA to provide the technical officials to ensure that SCSM race is indeed complied to IAAF World Qualifying races. Yes, everyone has heard of the other Marathon Event in Singapore, Sundown. It sets a Qualifying round, simply to meet the Road Closures at certain km, especially nearing 30-35km, for reasons always closer to the Marina Barrage from the Garden-By-the Bay (East) and along the Construction Site near to the ECP (entrace/exit of the ECP loop). Something that uncle still pondered, why road closure for what? Everyone hears that in recent Sundown 2019 in last 48hours, cutoff time began at 6am - 630am for most of final waves at 35KM...considering there had been a delay start of almost 80-90 minutes at Start Point. What is cutoff time at 6am - 630am does not mean that is cut-off time of 8 hours as stated at Sundown website. What was complained was 6am - 630am cut off time of road closures was never mentioned by Organiser, Infinitius. Hope uncle has answered your question, specifically on Local Races only. Perhaps, someone can be specific about overseas races. Thank you for attention.

Uncle would like to end in this forum thread with these thoughts: 1. Over the years, technology in running has allowed better ways to train and even if there is a race or not, there is always virtual race where runner can even run without even needing "participate". DIY technology allows accurate timing, even inform you on the nutrition and hydration needs from the statistics from your training, and as such, running can be made independent of organiser in race, virtual run is technology at its best. 2. Sundown, as being the only Evening Run in the past decade, has now failed to attracted messes. Truely, China with such advanced in Technology, would have laughed at local race, such as Sundown, why so low-tech, can't even have an app to show "live". 3. Sundown 2019 Logistics planning during the race at its worst, having to apologise to the public after the event. uncle has shared, it is expected that runners are able to DIY "supplement" their needs, since there are always wearables of runner's nutrition and hydration. Already seen many had prepared, including uncle who simply go vendor machines and supplement my craving needs. Who need to bother to tell organiser why there is no water, no banana, no pocari, no food. 4. Uncle remained in this forum is to remembered those that used to be here, and perhaps missing those memories of "bonding" of friendship of running clubs which is "real people". Gadgets of technology indeed has replaced the need to be contactable of running together as groups say, every Tuesday evening, meet at Sports Hub for run. Every Saturday morning, meet at Fort Road Toilet at ECP. Sorry, no time, got to work. We can track each other running remotely and keep in contact in monitoring each other progress in running, day and night. 5. Sadly, uncle has witnessed many forummers have left in this thread, because, what has happened is also, there are other alternatives to running, go mobile. Why run when when you have mobile devices or even biking that "assist" you to move or ride. Exercises with good health and fitness can be attained without the need to run. Of course, some have retired from running. Not surprising. 4. Lastly, perhaps, whether Qualification is IAAF or not, everyone still has a choice. Overseas races with varied attractions and uniquely blessed with seasons to counter local hot and humid condition which is always to challenge to run, and there is always no need Qualification to register. 5. Why bother, if Sundown can be a become a legacy in uncle's memory, it is actually beginning to seem to be without Hivelocity who had been in Sundown in the last Decade. With these thoughts, Uncle actually is legacy in this forum thread year after year. If reviving the "good" old days when this forum thread once was filled with fun and laughter with running club mates sharing their training agenda (FatBird running club used to be the official running partner in Sundown) encouraging and motivating each other to strive for their best and overcoming newbies' anxiety on how to complete their first marathon with running practices. Then, there was no such technology, it was pure human concerns and bonding. Technology has succeeded in replacing the bonding and the needs, since there is no need with reason to meet to improve training: DIY gadgets, Social Media platform, Youtubes on How to, and others actually can do. Who needs coaching and friendly advice anyway, or come to the forum (which has many has said, forum is legacy compare with Social Media platforms). Well, it has been a pleasure to make comments here. Sorry for being vocal over nothings. But, having real bros and sis here to share, the feeling of being "social" in Forum. Also, thanks to those that chose to remain faithfully here who are real bros and sis of the Running Community. If Local race like Sundown (once boasted as Asia's First Night Marathon), if at the state of where it is, with Infinitius taking over Hivelocity, it needs to really wake up and improve. "Sleeping Cannot Wait" for Infinitius in Sundown 2020, because Sundown used to be a famous local race brand, and to have it being made as a "tortoise" category in overseas run here, it is indeed very humiliating honour to the local running community. As such, we made comments here is to improve our local race. Uncle ends with best wishes to all. See you in Sundown 2020.

Thank you @james, we had never agreed, but it has been good to disagree, and yes, if there is any misunderstandings, our target here is on improvement on our local race. If I have fail to read, or interprete what you have written wholeheartedly, uncle apologise to you sincerely. It has been a long day for all who had been to Sundown Marathon: Thirsty, Hungry, Angry, Tired and yet we still want to Recall what else experiences that still make us unforgetable about the new Sundown with the maiden Infinitius. Btw, I just recovered from my beauty sleep #3 or #4 ?. Uncle did say a week ago, Sundown has never being any kind of Qualification Race to be like SCSM, because if what Infinitius has done today, they are never ready for any mega-event, no need to compare Infinitius with IronAsia in hosting of marathon events. IronAsia is a world-class host, and in 2018 SCSM, all of us gave thumbs-up review, of course, uncle again had issue with the cut-off time due to road closures, because uncle chose to go the last wave to experience first-hand how to be cut and sliced in stages. It was very real - silently, very hurtful and embarrassing experiences for those whom uncle witnessed - why me and not the earlier waves which could have been. You can read @SCMS 2018. Everyone would agree that portaloos today, how many dare actually to use it? I had one runner today at Construction site near to the ECP, complained that this only one portaloo is already one-ton of shit. I entered and I see (dare not want to describe what I smell). The next one available will be the cleaner public washing point at Fort Road (ECP), I told him. We joked, please remember to bring along banana leaves in case there is no paper for "cleaning up" at the next portaloo. Yes, banana "talk" for there is no logistics for bananas.

Yes, it is tough, and many would know, uncle just completed Sundown FM just now, and yes, tried Back2Back...tough...need at least 12 hours to recover...sleep, and leg muscles and tissues to recover, forget if I use SCSM timetable it is almost unlikely to recover in 4-6hours...after FM Run on Sunday morning say after Midnight, on the same day 6:30 (10Km ) and 8:30am (5KM)... Ok, sorry to be distracted because I focus on B2B for SCSM 2019. About yours, reason why SCSM wants to do a 3-day program, uncle already hinted, live-TV broadcasting for 42KM, 10KM and 5KM because of the need to fulfill the conditions for upgrading SCSM from Gold to Platinum Label. Hence, your Kids event on Day 1 is 7pm, FM is 6pm, and right after that 8:30am for your 11-year-old kid because no Kids Dash. So, why not organise a Family Stay at vicinity near F1? Remember, Road Closures are already enforced in the morning before the Race, expected. 5 km race for an 11-year old kid, as an Athletics Coach (Youth), your kid must have a proper training, and mostly, 5 km participants, or 5,000 m runners, they belong to the elites of Long Distance runners as youth runners, like Cross Country and I expect only Secondary Kids or Tertiary Ones fit the description. Your 11-year old kid fits appropriately as 3000m Middle Distance type, unless, takes part in 5000m. "Anyone know if it is 'easy' to smuggle into a 5km run? Is there security to chk ur bib to enter into 5km run?", As long as you pay for the 5km race, nobody cares if your kid is 11 year old. However, you cannot sneak in with no bib, because the entrance is narrow for Pen entry and 2 security personnels are to ensure. Any more questions you want to ask, feel free? In order not to side track on SCSM topics here, uncle shall not further on how your 11-year-old can train for 5 km.

@lonewolf and uncle had been in this forum thread long enough, uncle only talked sundown, besides SCSM. 1. Medal is no long ELM - the mark of Quality for the deserving Runners who complete Sundown. 2. No cutoff time then, because Sundown originated as a Community Run event. It has once been run in Public Housing Estates, even use Overhead Bridges as part of the Race Route. We cross traffic junctions like nobody business then, but always, the Community Volunteers offer to assist the Logistics with flags and warning to Pedestrians. 3. Hivelocity is Sundown, and so it has sold off, everyone here was surprised and always, they will remember their first maiden Marathon, Hivelocity offers Night Marathon to those who if take part in the Day SCMS, maybe they may DNF. 4. Uncle remembered Hivelocity because of Osim Ironman 70.3 and many events where they are known to supply Timers for races (charity ones or otherwise). Sundown had once gone global, and the Taiwan Sundown was the turning point, because of the bad reputation, Sundown became "WonTong" meaning "Broken Egg". 5. As for Infinitius, uncle knew they were once part of the Hivelocity that was in both Osim Ironman 70.3 and Sundown events. A breakaway from Hivelocity consists of younger ones. They may have the senior staff that was once from Hivelocity. But, uncle noticed key players in Infinitius are unknown ones in who's who in Marathon or Triathlon. Hivelocity has strong branding among runners and triathletes, local and overseas (malaysia especially), because we know the key teams and based of their reputations, we enjoy participating in any event that with the name "Hivelocity" 6. Uncle's Rating, give Infinitius 1 star out of 5, with a chance to prove (redeem with the many misgiving mistakes that were made today) to us, that if you do not deliver like Hivelocity, then better don't do mega event like Sundown. Go and do small-scale race hosting or "tortoise" races, maybe POSB for kids, and make sure the Kids are happy...and "bo chap" and "sebei critical sgRunners type" you must learn to handle the situations well...because we are your clients, and don't impose your way on what was not communicated....by the way, save some money to buy bananas...say got, but no see boxes of bananas...what, monkeying business...

Yes, it is always assumed that Pen A are fast runners, motivation is high, "pushed to excel" by fellow runners of same category...Pen B and C, not so sure, it is more of "cut queue" to start early and go back early. Uncle remembered in one SCSM @ Orchard, an angmo runner with Pen F, came to Pen B and said, I need to catch a flight, and I am able to make 4 hours, so that i can catch a flight home today. There was unpleasant encounter with the angmo runner and the security at the Pen B. Challenging and almost fight breakout.

Actually, the organiser (Infinitius) whom uncle knew worked once as official in multievent (they organised Duathlon - Run-Bike-Run). Todaym when I observed why 1km start hydation point, then I realised they implemented multi-event format, and they placed the next hydration at the exit of Sports Hub. Uncle highlighted, Infinitius only convenient themselves in the placement of their logistics for runners, but runners expect the old sundown of 2km water, 2km 100plus (this time pocari)...and bananas missing?...instead gels abundant (from vendors)...so uncle who had taken gels because it is not "natural" nutrition, had to take gels because how can uncle survive the FM run...short of nutrition and hydration (hot and high humidity - needs electrolytes)

Yes, thank you @yh90, because this is the first time they organise sundown, and so what is proof is there to show...Pen A is who they claim to be...same applies to Pen B and Pen C....what if Pen A runner turn out late and join Pen C and get DNF for the same reason

wah, very strong "wording"...only in singapore, 7.5 hour is quite generous, and "tortoise"....surely, only Singapore promotes "tortoise" race, purely marathon running is meant for the community at large, mess run and is recreational. Uncle is not recommending, it is the way, when you sign up for races (only first time for Sundown with the maiden organiser), you can opt what is the best option (Pen A, B and C) for you, and remember, uncle did not choose Pen B, it was orginally assigned as a free bib for me. I asked my bro, why you choose, he told me the same reason, because he can start early and so can go back early, a matter of convenience. Likedat is the reason not "bochap" attitude. Given the opportunity, why go with Pen C with highest chance of being cut-off? Why not choose Pen C?, look at examples of Pen C runner's testimony, slow runners, but if given a course of 42 km to run without road closures, you want to pay for 35KM when you can actually finish in 42km...and only in Singapore, cut off time is not "time of 7.5 hours"...cut of time is primarily for road closures, and please bro, check your facts on local regulation on road closure and @james, slowest at 5.5 hours...you are better than those who aim for 7.5 hour and newbie right?, surprise you still Pen C. By the way @james, at 5.5 hours, next time go for Pen B, so you can be made to be motivated to do 4++ hours because you have been recommended by uncle, happy? Don't be "tortoise" in your world, and if since are so happy about whats from overseas races, then go for "tortoise" category in overseas race and talk at respective forum...lol